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check engine light

Matman44

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Hi, just a quick rant, I have a 2009 VE International wagon, runs great, no engine noises, but the check engine lights are on, I`ve had the codes checked twice, two different places, same two codes come up indicating stretched chains. from memory I think p0008 and p0017 or 8?
Both dealers say engine is performing fine but cant find another reason for the lights to be on.
I`ve cleared them a few times - but they return.
My two questions, could the cause be a sensor elsewhere? OR is there a way to bypass / turn the damn light off for good as I have no intention of replacing the chains. (they were done about 50k ago.
Thanks
 

krusing

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The MIL comes on for a reason, they are not there to annoy you,
I would get the items rectified, and then they wont be a problem for a while,
You have a nice car, and if you would like to drive a nice car,
items need to be repaired, because its telling you its sick, and needs some TLC,
they are a lovely car, best to try and keep it running ship/shape. ;)
 
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krusing

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Hi, just a quick rant, I have a 2009 VE International wagon, runs great, no engine noises, but the check engine lights are on, I`ve had the codes checked twice, two different places, same two codes come up indicating stretched chains. from memory I think p0008 and p0017 or 8?
Both dealers say engine is performing fine but cant find another reason for the lights to be on.
I`ve cleared them a few times - but they return.
My two questions, could the cause be a sensor elsewhere? OR is there a way to bypass / turn the damn light off for good as I have no intention of replacing the chains. (they were done about 50k ago.
Thanks
FYI

P0008 Engine Position System - Performance Bank 1

P0017 Crankshaft/Exhaust Camshaft - Position not Plausible Bank 1

P0018 Crankshaft/Exhaust Camshaft - Position not Plausible Bank 2
 

Fu Manchu

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Timing chain skipped a tooth after install?
 

VTS5

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YOUR intention is irrelevant here,,,obviously chain/s either stretched or jumped a tooth.They need to be fixed to function properly ..
 

Matman44

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well vt55, you`re no help. maybe I should`ve asked your wife.. lol..
the point I was making is that I`ve been told the computer has certain parameters.
It is set to monitor chain issues. If that's the case why cant the comp be reset to accommodate the new
chain position? If my engine was running rough or noisy I`d sure be looking at the chains, but its not.
It`s functioning properly!

I wonder how many people have replaced chains over the years just to find the problem wasn`t mechanical at all.
 

timd29

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well vt55, you`re no help. maybe I should`ve asked your wife.. lol..
the point I was making is that I`ve been told the computer has certain parameters.
It is set to monitor chain issues. If that's the case why cant the comp be reset to accommodate the new
chain position? If my engine was running rough or noisy I`d sure be looking at the chains, but its not.
It`s functioning properly!

I wonder how many people have replaced chains over the years just to find the problem wasn`t mechanical at all.
Wow why come on here asking for help then respond like that?
 

Trevor loves holden.

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well vt55, you`re no help. maybe I should`ve asked your wife.. lol..
the point I was making is that I`ve been told the computer has certain parameters.
It is set to monitor chain issues. If that's the case why cant the comp be reset to accommodate the new
chain position? If my engine was running rough or noisy I`d sure be looking at the chains, but its not.
It`s functioning properly!

I wonder how many people have replaced chains over the years just to find the problem wasn`t mechanical at all.
I'm not that smart but that's a very dumb question, once the chain has skipped a tooth I be thinking well its pretty stretched to do that so how long before it jumps again, How can a computer reline the valves to match the piston position?
 

Trevor loves holden.

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P0017 is the OBD-II generic code indicating that the crankshaft and camshaft position sensor for bank 1 exhaust camshaft do not correlate signals with each other. same goes for p0018.

DTCs P0016, P0017, P0018, and P0019 set at the same time indicates a possible condition with the primary timing chain and the alignment between both intermediate sprockets and the crankshaft. Or, the crankshaft relocator wheel has moved and is no longer referenced to top dead center (TDC).



The P0008 code is associated with your engine’s mechanical timing.

It may also be accompanied with the codes: P0009, P0010, P0011, P0012, P0013, P0014, P0015, P0016, P0017, P0018, P0019, and many more.

What the P0008 code means
P0008 is a generic OBD-II code indicating an issue with the engine control module (ECM) detecting a variation in the mechanical timing between the crankshaft and bank 1 camshaft.

The ECM uses sensors to detect the position of the crankshaft and camshaft(s). From these sensor signals, the ECM controls ignition and fuel timing under various speeds and loads. The code will illuminate the Check Engine Light and possibly reduce engine performance.

What causes the P0008 code?
The Engine Positions System Performance Bank 1 code may have several causes:

  • Engine timing out of sync
  • Worn timing components (chains, gears, guides)
  • Crankshaft or camshaft sensor malfunctions
  • Wiring damage
  • ECM software out of date
  • ECM internal damage
What are the symptoms of the P0008 code?
The P0008 code will produce a Check Engine Light on the instrument panel / dashboard. It will likely affect:

  • Engine idle quality
  • Fuel economy
  • Overall engine performance
How does a mechanic diagnose the P0008 code?
P0008 is properly diagnosed with an advanced scan tool capable of factory sensor readings and codes (not just one from your local auto parts store) to start. A qualified technician can read the data from the scan tool to determine when and where the problem occurred or if it is still occurring. They may clear the code from the ECM and test drive the vehicle while monitoring the scan tool data to see if the fault returns or if it is intermittent.

If the fault is intermittent, then a visual inspection or wiggle test of the wiring may produce more results. Otherwise, the vehicle will have to be driven until the problem becomes more persistent.

If the fault returns immediately, the scan tool and information from professional resources should be able to narrow down the problem. Otherwise, a digital voltage scope used to monitor the sensor signals will be required. The signals will indicate what the ECM is seeing and if they are correct. Removal of the front timing cover of the engine may be required to verify the timing.

Based upon the results of the testing, possible clearing of the code, and a road test while monitoring the data, further diagnosis may be required. Diagnosis will require multiple tools such as:

  • An advanced scan tool to read the ECM data values
  • A digital voltage scope with attachments
  • Basic hand tools to access the sensors and timing components
Common mistakes when diagnosing the P0008 code
It is common to see inexperienced technicians assume the engine needs a new timing chain or belt based upon this code. Without performing a diagnostic procedure, a vehicle owner could spend several hundreds of dollars to not solve their problem.

The code could be solved with a simple computer learn procedure or reprogramming. I have seen vehicles that have come in from other repair shops after having spent hundreds of dollars to only fix their issue in less than an hour.

Having a proper diagnosis is always recommended before replacing components based upon the code alone.

How serious is the P0008 code?
The P0008 fault code may cause your vehicle to have:

  • Lower fuel economy
  • Idle instability
  • Reduced power
  • Potential for future engine damage
  • Inability to pass emissions testing
A qualified technician can diagnose the problem with proper tools and can verify these potential issues and effects to your other systems.

What repairs can fix the P0008 code?
The most common procedure to repair the P0008 code is as follows:

  • Connect a professional scan tool to verify the code exists.

  • Perform research from professional sources for testing and values based upon the code.

  • Check for any other fault codes which may be related to the issue and perhaps clear the fault codes to see which fault codes return.

  • Analyze scan tool data from the ECM related to the code and road test the vehicle while analyzing the scan tool data from the ECM. Verify the P0008 code returns or the symptoms exist.

  • Visually inspect all of the items listed above (noises, wiring, etc.).

  • Further diagnose the problem with the special tools listed above if the problem appears to repeat.

  • The signals and wiring from the sensors require analyzing from a digital voltage scope to determine where the problem exists.

  • If the signals and scan tool values are within specification, then removal of the timing/front engine cover may be required.

  • Verify the timing marks on the crank and camshaft sprockets align.

  • Inspect the condition of the timing chain/belt and guides for signs of wear.

  • Replace the faulty component found during the above testing.
Additional comments for consideration regarding the P0008 code
Engine timing between the crankshaft and camshaft(s) is critical to the performance and smoothness of the engine. The code typically means that the timing is not aligned thus causing performance issues.

The code is most commonly found in Chevrolet, Subaru, and Suzuki vehicles, although I have seen it in other makes. On higher mileage vehicles, I usually suspect the timing chain stretching or the timing chain guides wearing down allowing the timing to change slightly.

On lower mileage vehicles, I suspect an ECM software update issue or a weak crankshaft or camshaft sensor signal giving incorrect signals.

In all of these scenarios, a knowledgeable technician with proper tools and professional resources will be able to determine the true fault behind the P0008 code.
 

Matman44

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Wow why come on here asking for help then respond like that?
In the first place, I`m not sure what you mean, if you are referring to my reply to vts5`s comment "well vt55, you`re no help. maybe I should`ve asked your wife.. lol.." that was a joke in reference to his humorous notation at the end of his post
`I don't google,wife knows everything.`
 
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