Cold start rattle on LS3 - piston slap :) Engine replaced

[chrisp]

Floating sleeve block in LS so no problems there.

I don’t think the liners in the LSx are floating, but rather they are cast in place.

Some early variations of the LSx engines were notorious for having poor liner placement (or the liner shifting during casting?) and it wasn’t uncommon to breakthrough the liner when reboring the block. I believe the latter engines (including the LS3) are much better in this respect.

Personally, I think it takes a very good engine builder to produce an engine of OEM quality. On a factory production line, parts can be graded and selected to suit the particular block as it is assembled. For example, Nissan had six sizes of the ‘standard’ piston with sub-thou size variations in the RB30 as used in the VL.

 

[07GTS]

LS engine production isnt exact as alot have pistons either just under, even or just over the deck height and there isnt enough time in the production like to get it all exact thats why the LS7 and LS9 are hand built so it can be more precise, thats why like im doing now building an engine u send it all down to get squared up and true as they are not from factory when u spend big money on parts u want it more exact then factory production can do, talking piston slap im going forged 2618 alloy pistons so im sure ill have some slap till it warms up (helped by skirt coatings) but in my situation its a necessary issue due to piston material expansion rate, the stock pistons dont expand as much so shouldnt have such a gap in reality

 

[Immortality]

Maybe the factory machinist forgot the tighter tolerances for cast alloy pistons?

 

[Skylarking]

I don’t think the liners in the LSx are floating, but rather they are cast in place.

Some early variations of the LSx engines were notorious for having poor liner placement (or the liner shifting during casting?) and it wasn’t uncommon to breakthrough the liner when reboring the block. I believe the latter engines (including the LS3) are much better in this respect.

Personally, I think it takes a very good engine builder to produce an engine of OEM quality. On a factory production line, parts can be graded and selected to suit the particular block as it is assembled. For example, Nissan had six sizes of the ‘standard’ piston with sub-thou size variations in the RB30 as used in the VL.

Was reading lsenginediy.com and they stated the thin liners were cast in place. As such they have no mechanical fastening to the block hense they classified them as floating but I don’t understand all the distinctions between the various types that may exist.

That site also stated the thin liners were brittle and can cause problems with high power builds thus requiring block mods and changing liner types. Another page also mentioned the standard liners can be replaced but often the cost is prohibitive and a new block may be a better choice. I didn’t save the actual pages but there seems massive amounts of info to be gleaned from that site should one have a few days to spare

In any case, as long as Holden rebuilds Ron’s engine using best practice workshop standards then all should be ok. As part of that, I understand torque plates should be used when measuring cylinder dimensions and later when doing a light hone (which should be done as a matter of block prep before assembly?). Guess time will tell.

Hopefully Ron is kept updated with exactly what is done and how it is done and given a copy of all the before and after measurements. If so he’ll know what state his block and pistons were in to cause the piston slap he was suffering.

If Ron gets such info, maybe he can share and we’ll also learn something

 

[chrisp]

Was reading lsenginediy.com and they stated the thin liners were cast in place. As such they have no mechanical fastening to the block hense they classified them as floating but I don’t understand all the distinctions between the various types that may exist.

That site also stated the thin liners were brittle and can cause problems with high power builds thus requiring block mods and changing liner types. Another page also mentioned the standard liners can be replaced but often the cost is prohibitive and a new block may be a better choice. I didn’t save the actual pages but there seems massive amounts of info to be gleaned from that site should one have a few days to spare

In any case, as long as Holden rebuilds Ron’s engine using best practice workshop standards then all should be ok. As part of that, I understand torque plates should be used when measuring cylinder dimensions and later when doing a light hone (which should be done as a matter of block prep before assembly?). Guess time will tell.

Hopefully Ron is kept updated with exactly what is done and how it is done and given a copy of all the before and after measurements. If so he’ll know what state his block and pistons were in to cause the piston slap he was suffering.

If Ron gets such info, maybe he can share and we’ll also learn something

Some engines, notably ‘heavy duty diesels’ tend to have removable liners that can be replaced. The LS3 has ‘cast in place’ liners that are put in place before the block is cast. The liners and block become one-piece and as such the liners are not removable or replaceable. However, like most any engine, it is possible to ‘sleave’ the cylinder/s with a new liner, but this is generally only done for very special cases such as when a new block is unobtainable.

Keep in mind that the LSx engines have very stout pistons, and (iirc) no offset on the piston pins, and as such they will be very prone to piston slap.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

My son has an Astra R+ auto with the 1.4 litre engine. I love it. I did test pilot drive a 1.6 RS (or RSV), the front wheels were too wanting to slip and spin. I think the base model was better balanced package and wouldn't waste the money on the higher spec purely for the additional power.

They have me Astra RSV hatch. Goes really nice
Would not buy one ... but pretty good for loan car

 

[chrisp]

We’ll all be keeping vigil awaiting a successful outcome on the beloved LS3.

 

[Anthony121]

They have me Astra RSV hatch. Goes really nice
Would not buy one ... but pretty good for loan car

Oh you got top spec. Nice car.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

We’ll all be keeping vigil awaiting a successful outcome on the beloved LS3.

Lol
Might do some sort of video reveal hahahaha

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Astra after day one...

Good:
Exterior styling (rear)
Power...heaps !
Equipment
Interior space

Bad:
Exterior styling (front)
Plasticky interior
Awful reverse camera
Brakes
Boot space

Not bad overall...