crane 286 degree'ing

[delcowizzid]

advancing or retarding isnt going to raise the power much at all it mor shifts the torque curve up or down the rev range you may gain or loose a little power but not a huge amount.get a degree wheel and the cam card for the cam and time it up on the manufacturers specs

 

[greenfoam]

Well I'm assuming for cam is dialed in correctly allready, some of the factory chains have inbuilt retard some are straight up. Do you have a factory chain or an adjustable?. It's not just the duration of the cam that matter's the intake and exhaust valve timing can be all over the shop and very different between two cams of the same duration. The 286 has ALOT of overlap and is famously bad in the low/mid range and also needs alot of compression to do anything decent. If all you want to do is find TDC you just need a degree wheel and a stopper in the number one spark plug hole/ You hand turn the engine over one way untill it hits the stopper (mark the wheel), then back the other way untill it stops again (mark the wheel) inbetween those two points is TDC

 

[ari666]

If all you want to do is find TDC you just need a degree wheel and a stopper in the number one spark plug hole/ You hand turn the engine over one way untill it hits the stopper

yeah i offered that idea to the dyno guy but he pointed out that on the black's the spark plug angle is only a few degrees higher than flat on the piston so getting an accurate TDC is next to impossible. because when the piston raises the stopper is pressed at 10 degrees, rather than the 45 or so it would need to be accurate.

then following on from that, the 1 and 2 lifters would need to come out to get accurate lift readings due to the .004 or so lash in anti-pumps. (i.e. i couldnt put my dial indicator on the end of the pushrod)

i have an old solid around here somewhere i can put in for the test but it still means taking the inlet manifold off AGAIN! (had to redo it after the build cos' spermatex gaskets have a sticky side and apparently they like to stick to the block but not the gasket. there is something to be said for cheap gaskets and a bucket of RTV high temp silicone)

and i dont mean to be a pain, but i am very aware of the fact that advancing and retarding the cam generally only moves your power band around and has very little horsepower benefit, however if i am currently running retarded (which seems to be the case according to the ellery's manual) then advancing the cam will give me a definate boost.

remarks on the cam card; INTAKE LOBE LIFT AT TDC = .081 which would mean that if i am retarded (which a lot of you are probably thinking right now) then lobe lift @ tdc would probably be 0.000, by advancing (or even zero'ing) i would be allowing that little extra air/fuel in and bumping up piston psi (willing to be corrected)

gah, i dunno. i do appreciate everyones input. i think the best option is probably stick in the new chain@ 0 degrees, if it is currently retarded then i will see a boost, and then if i want more advance, bump it up later. i just dont really want to be doing the same tasks over and over again, i.e. removing and replacing timing cover, inlet manifold, possible sump if the front seal gets naffed etc etc etc.

and coolant really isnt cheap.

*edit: sorry, i have a factory gearset fitted at the moment. when the build was coming to completion, all the little bits and pieces i needed and forgot about stripped me and i couldnt stretch the $150 for a new gearset. instead just replaced the chain for 30 bucks. yeah, i now know the importance of dialling in the cam while the engine is out of the car and your heads are off :S

 

[stocky]

whats with the deleted posts in here? they were on a similar topic and had some good info in there

 

[Smitty]

yeah i offered that idea to the dyno guy but he pointed out that on the black's the spark plug angle is only a few degrees higher than flat on the piston so getting an accurate TDC is next to impossible. because when the piston raises the stopper is pressed at 10 degrees, rather than the 45 or so it would need to be accurate.

huh...???

with a bloody big bolt welded into an old sparkplug (my tool of choice)
and
then screwed into the plug head port (the head is on obviously)
its gunna stop the piston whether its flat...or 90° to the piston top
dont get this

 

[ari666]

went with 2 deg advanced on cam timing, might have been a tad too much. loads more induction note audible now. fitted carter fuel pump and holley perssure reg@6 psi, ran like poop. fitted holley 600 DP ran like poop, retarded the timing to 6 deg BTDC broke traction taking off without brakes. stopped the car to get mixtures set for 6 deg BTDC, broke my second starter motor

omg this car hates me. i am stuck atm looking for a starter that doesnt touch my headers.

but yeah. VK runs retarded, dunno bout a full 2 degrees back but if anyone googles the same problem, setting at 0 with an aftermarket chain from a stock one will definitly give you an improvement.

 

[v8_bomberdore]

just a thought , but have u checked so see if the cats are blocked

 

[383 hatch]

just a thought , but have u checked so see if the cats are blocked

Ummmm, it's a VK mate......

 

[v8_bomberdore]

oh yep sorry my bad

 

[ari666]

lol, yeah. pre ULP. i also have single system so would be 'cat'

so anyway, starter is in replaced with a CVR protorque which is great! sits about 15-20mm off the headers.

still cant seem to find the right timing though. does anyone know how changing your cam timing affects the ignition timing? would i have the ign timed later or earlier? or just the same. it seems to like 5 deg BTDC but still struggles a bit through mid range. loves anything after 3k RPM.

i think i need to get the dizzy redone again for this cam. its amazing how much difference .001 lift and 8 deg duration can actually make.