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Crate motor build

Daniel2019

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Afternoon gents,

My name is Daniel, I'm an apprentice mechanic at Mazda and I'm looking into a big build for my next car. My current is a Mitsubishi FTO that I've built from ground up (non mivec shell with mivec engine swap and rebuild, gearbox rebuild etc) I also have an XD falcon (crappy 3.3 auto) that I have been fixing up for my brother. I'm wanting something with more power that is much more inconspicuous.. I do have experience in engine swaps and rebuilds (I've done a few now, but nothing custom like this)

Anyway, my old boss had a VS ute with about 650hp in it that looked like a normal ute aside from the stealthy front mount which is what I'm looking into at the moment.

Have spoken to a few mechanics at work and supposedly most small block chev crate engines will fit into most commodores either straight away or with minimal fab work. Im more interested in the VN/VP as they apparently have stronger rear end set ups than the VR/VS and should be able to take 400-500HP. I know plenty about jap cars and setups but not stuff like this :doh:

The point is to have a cheap old looking shell and obviously can pickup VN/VPs pretty cheap with tired old engines in them to swap out.. I'm sure this has been done before so does anyone have build threads/more information or experience with specific engine swaps into these?

Was gearing more towards the small block chev motors (in particular the 350) for a good balance of power vs. money spent - http://www.enginefactory.com/400hp.htm or similar

Would rather an N/A carby setup as I don't want to screw around with ECUs and custom wiring jobs and things. Just want it to be nice and simple power.

So a few questions, what will need to be upgraded aside from the diff & cooling system? Which box would be better suited, auto or manual? I would like to be able to run an auto but would they be able to deal with the power and I'm assuming a stall converter will be needed? And does anyone have in depth info into builds/swaps like this that have been done before?

And the main question - how expensive? Without cutting corners!

Cheers
 

_R_J_K_

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Have spoken to a few mechanics at work and supposedly most small block chev crate engines will fit into most commodores either straight away or with minimal fab work. Im more interested in the VN/VP as they apparently have stronger rear end set ups than the VR/VS and should be able to take 400-500HP. I know plenty about jap cars and setups but not stuff like this :doh:

Would rather an N/A carby setup as I don't want to screw around with ECUs and custom wiring jobs and things. Just want it to be nice and simple power.

So a few questions, what will need to be upgraded aside from the diff & cooling system? Which box would be better suited, auto or manual? I would like to be able to run an auto but would they be able to deal with the power and I'm assuming a stall converter will be needed?

And the main question - how expensive? Without cutting corners!

VN-VS have exactly the same rear end, minus some IRS stub axle differences and shot peened diff gears with the V8s and L67s. The factory LSDs are a waste of time really, just go for a Tru-Trac.

The engine won't just drop in. It could require any amount of fab to get it in, including a custom tail shaft, headers, radiator, sump etc...

Auto vs. manual is a preferential thing, there is no "better" gearbox. A T56 will hold the power fine, I'm not sure if there was ever a factory T5 setup in the states. Any amount of autos can be built to take that power, there are large amounts of R&D on the TH700/4L60e and their variants, Powerglides etc... The stall size is really based on the size of your cam.

If you don't want to cut corners and get this thing engineered, I doubt a carby setup will help you out much with emissions. The cost is really on a case by case basis, there is no benchmark for a project like this. Buying a crate motor and building a gearbox and associated fab, I don't think you'd see much change out of 15k.

Pretty sure the VL had a carby V8 setup, so you could go in that direction. Most people have ditched the Chev in favour of an LS1 for a swap these days. Despite them being completely different engines, the builds will have similar steps to getting the 350 to fit (although a lot of off the shelf stuff exists now), so that might be worth a read.
 

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ari666

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Darren_L

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if you've got your mind set on an engine conversion, considering all the screwing around and cost to fit a SBC, you may as well just pick up a LS1 and convert it to a carb setup.
but as said above, carby in anything later than VL is going to cause you major headaches with the law if you plan on registering it.
 

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how legal are we trying to make this build? because your costs will go up very rapidly if youre talking about a legal road going vehicle.



LSX has NOTHING in common with a SBC. thats like comparing a 2JZ install to a BBC install.

Wasn't thinking.
Gives him an idea on what power it has to parts beefed up.
 

ari666

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carby in anything later than VL is going to cause you major headaches with the law if you plan on registering it.

there is the option of going TPI 350 from a late LT1. itll mean all the evaporative losss system, EGR etc can be utilised and "should be" ok on emissions. use the TPI setup to get it through an engineer, then switch it all out for a carby style TB and efi setup afterwards. or turbo, whatever floats your boat.

TPI setups are gutless ad fk though. you wouldnt wanna use one for the long term., and even still doing it this way wouldnt be legal either. buuut *you didnt hear this from me* if you kept all the TPI setup so you could just switch out intakes and unclip looms, then swapping it back to clear a canary wouldnt be too hard.


liek dis:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Camaro...Parts_Accessories&hash=item540a02133f&vxp=mtr
 

383 hatch

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LSX has NOTHING in common with a SBC. thats like comparing a 2JZ install to a BBC install.

They share the same trans bolt pattern....haha

if you've got your mind set on an engine conversion, considering all the screwing around and cost to fit a SBC, you may as well just pick up a LS1 and convert it to a carb setup.
but as said above, carby in anything later than VL is going to cause you major headaches with the law if you plan on registering it.

Actually, anything past HJ with an aftermarket carby on it is going to give you grief in terms of pollution regulations. If we're talking about a legal conversion, really the only way is to go EFI.

OP, I'm a pretty big supporter of small block chevs, but in a commodore, it's not the right engine for the job. As much as I don't fancy LS engines, it's the only way to go in a commodore, especially if you want it legal. If you don't want/need it legal, then do whatever the hell you want.
 

Immortality

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As mentioned for it to be legal it will have to be EFI. If you're after the old school look then you could always fit a carb style manifold but use an EFI type 1000 cfm TB.
 

Daniel2019

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Thanks for the replies guys. Car must be legal otherwise I just won't bother. As far as an engineering standpoint, I should be able to get it engineered fairly easily as long as it's legal and safe, I know a fella.

In that case, how much of a job is an LS conversion in terms of wiring jobs? Wiring is basically the only thing I won't be doing myself (mainly because I just suck at it and hate it)

If the VL can legally have a carby setup in it then I'll look more into that too. I'm not overly set on the VN/VP shape, it was just a suggestion given to me. I really just do not want to be dealing with ECU and wiring jobs. The idea is simple power (although the more I read here the more apparent that it won't happen haha)

Edit: also, doesn't even have to be a commodore really, it has just been suggested to me that VN/VP is a good option. If not, what else would be suitable?
 
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