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304 Crow 4761 - good choice??

Big_Bro

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  • Part #: 4761
  • Valve Timing: IN. 38/74 EX. 76/36 LCA-109.
  • Duration: 292/292 @ advertised 230/230 duration @.050”.
  • Valve Lift: .495”/.495”.

I am after some constructive feed back on this cam, I have read Greenfoams sticky thread back to back and I am pretty much sold on his recommendation of the 4503 crow.
I am basic modding the car, call it stage 1, cam swapping the engine (it is stock stroke/comp/intake) auto trans & 3000 stall with 3.73 gear upgrade, tri y paccies with y pipe hi flow cat and 3in exhaust... 70mm throttle body could be amongst that list also.

Without any further mods... at this stage, heads and manifold (maybe graft in an LS1 ecu) + more to come progressively ... will the 4761 really be that much of a sh1t cam to use? It's not a daily, just something that has a bit of mongrel and get up, building up to 1/8 & 1/4 mile passes.

Im likely to go down the 4503 route, but don't want to completely discount the 4761, yet.

Thoughts?

CHEERS!
 

EYY

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With gears and 3000 stall it should have decent manners and performance with the 286. Always helps to have a bit more compression though. It’ll perform well (much better than stock) but won’t reach its full potential with stock manifold and compression. With how you intend to use the car and what you’re after, id go the 286 for sure. And it’ll sound awesome too.

No need to go ls ecu - it’s a waste of money imo with the near free tuning solutions available through pcmhacking. Can real-time tune the stock computer once you fit an nvram (~220). Just need a laptop and an Aldl cable once you have the nvram. No need to mess with wiring or pay excessive amounts for credits etc.
 

immortality

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It's the wrong cam for a stock long block 304, not enough comp and just as the cam is really starting to sing the manifold will choke it up but then if it's not a daily manners aren't a consideration. High stall and diff gears will definitely be of benefit. If you intend to up the comp and sort out the intake at a later date then chuck it in.

Having said all that, it is a very old grind and there are better options out there and if you have your mind set on the ol' crane 286/crow 4761 than I would highly recommend this cam instead Camtech CT248 528 It has the same 230°/230° @ .050" but only 285° advertised duration instead of the 292° than the Crane/Crow cams have which means it will cope better with less compression and as a bonus the Camtech also has more valve lift. Another option that will go even better is the Camtech CT248 520 Which will work better again with the stock compression and intake manifold.
 
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Big_Bro

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With gears and 3000 stall it should have decent manners and performance with the 286. Always helps to have a bit more compression though. It’ll perform well (much better than stock) but won’t reach its full potential with stock manifold and compression. With how you intend to use the car and what you’re after, id go the 286 for sure. And it’ll sound awesome too.
No need to go ls ecu - it’s a waste of money imo with the near free tuning solutions available through pcmhacking. Can real-time tune the stock computer once you fit an nvram (~220). Just need a laptop and an Aldl cable once you have the nvram. No need to mess with wiring or pay excessive amounts for credits etc.
Let me Google the pcmhacking and nvram gear, I'm not a technical whizz but I'll certainly give it a crack, I've owned 304's in the past, but never modified them beyond exhaust and fully sik pod filters.


It's the wrong cam for a stock long block 304, not enough comp and just as the cam is really starting to sign the manifold will choke it up but then if it's not a daily manners aren't a consideration. High stall and diff gears will definitely be of benefit. If you intend to up the comp and sort out the intake at a later date then chuck it in.

Having said all that, it is a very old grind and there are better options out there and if you have your mind set on the ol' crane 286/crow 4761 than I would highly recommend this cam instead Camtech CT248 528 It has the same 230°/230° @ .050" but only 285° advertised duration instead of the 292° than the Crane/Crow cams have which means it will cope better with less compression and as a bonus the Camtech also has more valve lift. Another option that will go even better is the Camtech CT248 520 Which will work better again with the stock compression and intake manifold.
Cheers mate!!
Awesome comparison between the two!
The camtech it would seem, have the edge slightly over the 4761.

Would I maybe be better off going a less aggressive LSA and aim for a 112 -114 for this motor to help spread the torque/power range, or stick with the tighter 109-110?
I will be modding more, but for now its looking like I could be driving a "cranky sounding but goes a bit better than stock 304 coz wank factor rules" commodore LOL
 

gtrboyy

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Don't bother doing cam unless upping the compression ration...definitely go twin cats,auto mods like corvette servo,shiftkit & boost valve to go with 3k stally & 3.7 gears

If you want to do engine stuff splurge on new timing chain,aftermarket balance,bolt on yt rockers & fg thermofan

Get ACE memcal or pcmhacking peep to do one..ask if can add grump to idle....go quicker with what you have rather than make it slower or waste coin.

Then build something proper with decent compression & basic mods!!!!

Got small cam reco'd 304 stocker...I'd be pissed fork out whatever previuos owner paid for such little gain...
 

Deuce

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Those camtechs look nice.
Don't be scared to cam it. I wish I had gone bigger. (Although I have raised compression and extra cubes to eat through it quicker)
 

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I've reconsidered the whole deal, trying to keep it all together by educating myself and make sure that we are heading in the right direction before throwing fist fulls at this build.
I want a bit more than just "it goes a bit better than stock" performance, so I'm getting the engine rebuilt with 10:1 comp, heads cleaned up and replacing the bananas with an aeroflow efi 4bbl TB and edelbrock hi rise dual plane.
The CROW 4761, CAMTECH CT248 528 or similar would be about as much cam as this combo (engine, 3000 stall, twin cat dual 2.5 in to single 3in exhaust and 3.73 rear) would suit (IMO) and be a bit more fun, without going too much more crazy with it.
Just torn with the cam choice now, those 2 cams are my shortlisted, still looking for other options.
What would be the benefits with cams of more duration, less lift (4761) vs less duration, more lift (528) and vice versa on this combo with higher comp and better intake/exhaust etc?

CHEERS!
BB
 

Deuce

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Go a single plane intake over a dual if possible. I mean it is efi after all.
In general the higher lift and shorter duration (within reason) is the better cam. Should have a wider power band and benefit you at both ends of the RPM range.
 

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I've reconsidered the whole deal, trying to keep it all together by educating myself and make sure that we are heading in the right direction before throwing fist fulls at this build.
I want a bit more than just "it goes a bit better than stock" performance, so I'm getting the engine rebuilt with 10:1 comp, heads cleaned up and replacing the bananas with an aeroflow efi 4bbl TB and edelbrock hi rise dual plane.
The CROW 4761, CAMTECH CT248 528 or similar would be about as much cam as this combo (engine, 3000 stall, twin cat dual 2.5 in to single 3in exhaust and 3.73 rear) would suit (IMO) and be a bit more fun, without going too much more crazy with it.
Just torn with the cam choice now, those 2 cams are my shortlisted, still looking for other options.
What would be the benefits with cams of more duration, less lift (4761) vs less duration, more lift (528) and vice versa on this combo with higher comp and better intake/exhaust etc?

CHEERS!
BB
I'd look into torque power manifolds. I've had (but not used) both - the tp manifolds have a much nicer finish and just seem better designed than the hi rise dual plane. I don't think there'd be much in it between low rise dual plane and a hi rise single for your application. Just depends whether you want it to stay under bonnet i spose.

Greater lift can sacrifice valvetrain reliabilty, especially where flat tappet cams are concerned; longer duration and lower lift can make them live longer and benefits cam/lifters/springs etc. Just something to keep in mind.
 

immortality

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Where is the fun in that?

I'd consider anything under .550 lift mild. Lift = flow = powa
 
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