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Crypto Currencies

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Skydrol, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. gavmen

    gavmen New Member

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    Sort of just selectively answering a few questions in the thread.

    Just from general ones to some of the more specific ones.

    Is it a Ponzi Scheme?
    By the (Wiki) definition of a Ponzi Scheme

    "Require an initial investment and promise well-above-average returns"

    The intial statement is most likely what makes people think that its a Ponzi Scheme as anyone who is an early adopter will have made the most gains. That is since the bitcoin price has increased the people who adopted early could been seen as given a "well-above-average" returns. This is however the same for any investment where the price has increased e.g. share price of Google/Apple. However if the price of bitcoin never took off (probably a bad phrase) it would have still continued to be a currency. Also when you purchase bitcoin you're not paying back the intial investors money, because if you lose they lose as well (I understand if big money goes in and out, they couldnt care less about you but this is just an analogy).

    Which is the offical "Bitcoin"?
    *There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and you could say my statement is also part of this misinformaton.*

    To understand this better we need to understand the blockchain. The blockchain is the underlying technology of cryptocurrencies and is a ledger of every single transaction ever made of the cryptocurrency. A very easy to understand explanation is here: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/q...eone-explain-how-the-bitcoin-blockchain-works
    I was actually confused until I read the blockchain for dummies version.

    However the original mainstream cryptocurrency is "Bitcoin". This can be traced back to the genesis block (1st block) through its own technology the "Blockchain" where every block which has been mined can be tracked. https://blockchain.info/ . If you can identify that the original Bitcoin is the official one then it is. The confusing part to this to anyone new to the cryptocurrency space is the two pieces "altcoins" and "forked coins".

    A forked coin is one which has been split from an original blockchain. This has happened to many cryptocurrencies and the more popular ones are:

    Bitcoin:
    Bitcoin Gold
    Bitcoin Cash

    Ethereum:
    Ethereum Classic

    Forks occur when the miners find a valid block at the same time and this occurs often however this is resolved when the next block is found and attaches itself to the previous block and becomes the longest chain. The shorter chain and its block are then discarded and the longest (valid) chain carries on.

    Forks can also occur when people decide they want to change the "rules" (software) also known as a hard fork. The most recent mainstream one of which was Bitcoin Cash where they wanted to change the blocksize from 1mb to infinitely scalable. The hard fork then occurs because some of the miners decide that they like the new rules and want to follow that, and some do not. There are myriad of reasons for this and there are pros and cons to it and I wont go into detail in this post but may write a response if requested. This means both Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash are valid cryptocurrencies in that they both have miner support and they continue to support both as they both provide profits.

    Altcoins are completely separate blockchains which have their own genesis block and rules. The most notable of these is Ethereum. They also have had their hard fork into Etherium and Etherium Classic

    Can you still mine bitcoin?
    Can it be done?
    Yes

    Is it profitable?
    Yes IF your electricity is completely free. There are some caveats as you will need high capital to buy an ASIC miner (specific cryptocurrency hardware) consumer computer hardware now mines bitcoin at such a low rate it would be unfeasable.

    Is it possible to be profitable even if they electricity is not free?
    Yes, the easiest of the options is to mine an Altcoin and hope that its price goes up. Ethereum is an example of this.

    Is it still worth buying?
    Like any investment it has inherent risks and they are up to you. Never go all-in I guess.

    If you guys have any more questions let me know

    Thanks

    Gav
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  2. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    Yeah 1 question... Where is Satoshi Nakamoto?
     
  3. gavmen

    gavmen New Member

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    No one knows. Some would suggest that its not one person, but potentially persons.

    Gav
     
  4. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    So nobody knows where this came from. All we know is some "White Paper" made by some ficticious charcter.
     
  5. gavmen

    gavmen New Member

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    Does knowing who it is make it more or less real to you?
     
  6. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    Is not about been real, is about trustworthiness. As far I know, there is a 50/50 chance to be a move for 1 Cashless World Currency by Central Bankers. I am a believer of tangible assets and some that is nothing more than an algorithm hash is not a store of value to me, therefore, is as good as any currency and none of them endured the test of time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  7. gavmen

    gavmen New Member

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    I am confused, so are you inferring that you dont use credit cards, cash and only barter for goods?

    Or do you see currency as a nesscessary evil as long as its not an "algorithm hash"? Possibly read up on sub-prime? They were tangible assets with intangible price/cost realisations?
     
  8. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    Sure, now days we use some form of currency (paper or plastic) but what I have been hearing lately, people are using Cryptos as a store of value. I do not see why can it be a store of value at all, is all Ether. To me, has no more value than an Arcade Token.
     
  9. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    I can see what you are saying, but then the money you currently earn is mostly fictitious numbers on a spreadsheet simple because if every man, woman, child (and their dog) went to the bank and tried to withdraw their saving the entire world banking system would crash as there isn't enough actual cash to cover it and in the mean time the b(w)ankers get rich whilst we work harder and longer to pay of the interest on the loans they provide.

    The likely hood of crypto currencies been real lies in the fact that anybody can set up and mine it which ensures the legitimacy of the blockchain mentioned earlier in this thread. Also means that no one entity like a central bank can control it. However crypto currencies are still small enough in value that a large bank/state could in theory manipulate the value of said currency by simply buying and selling it much like brokers manipulating stock values.....

    This is probably a good question for our mate Zeke, no doubt something along the lines of "the devil" or "satan" would be the likely answer :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
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  10. Zehq

    Zehq Active Member

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    It's verified in that every transaction and transfer can be confirmed and legitimized by any single entity. It's what makes crypto currencies so interesting.
     
  11. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    Currency is not Money at all. For example, what gives the US Dollar its value is the confindence. People are willing to take it and is backed by nothing. Cryptos, falls on the same category. To me are worthless. So 1,000,000 Bitcoins is nothing to me. Anyway, what can I do with them? Also, how many Cryptos are out there? What about Tech itself? What will happen if Bitcoin becomes obsolete?

    I believe in Preciuos Metals, the Barbaric Relic that no banker will touch. My "Money" is on Silver, perhaps the most undervalue asset.

    I think Cryptos, whatever flavor is in fashion will be the mean of exchange. But PMs, are the one to have as a Store of Value.

    Cryptos will bridge the gap on portability, ownership exchange, just like we do with Currencies.. Would you take a Thumb Drive full of Bitcoins or a Bar of Gold? I can see the bar of Gold, a Thumb Drive... how do I know you are bluffing?

    Money has the following values...
    Portable
    Durable
    Divisible
    Sufficiently rare
    Fungible
    Easily identifiable
    Store of value
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  12. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    But how do you value gold? is loaves of bread, cans of beer?
     
  13. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    That is a good question. We are all used to have a Currency as a gauge. Same with Bitcoin, why is almost $20,000 USDs? Is a speculative asset, nobody knows. You show me Bitcoins and will tell you to take a hike. Show me some Gold/Silver Coins and we will talk.

    Right now, is about $1,249.50 Why is that price? Search on Google about the London Gold Fix, is a real thing. Bankers dictate, how much Gold is worth. Also, exchanges using Paper Contracts manipulate the prices of Precious Metals. By making the people believe that has a lesser value they keep the Currency Confidence going.

    Bitcoin came in and took off like a wildfire. Yesterday, Sunday 10th, it went to the future markets. Posted a link for the CME. That allows for Paper Contracts dictate its value.

    The reason that I placed my money on Silver is because it had a natural Gold to Silver ratio at about 10~15 Right now it has about 70 to 1. Is so "cheap" that is barely cost effective to mine. Is also an Industrial metal. So has a dual purpose as Money and Industrial, good to grab when is on the dip to sell on the tip.

    Is not a matter of IF, is a matter of WHEN the economical reset happen, prices will go to the roof and the real Price Discovery will occur.

    Real value, is very tricky, is just a matter of wait and see how will plays out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  14. Zeke Topanaga

    Zeke Topanaga Active Member

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    Pray ? ha ha as to what some claim pray means, but in fact you are some what correct but in truth Pray is not about wishing at all, when it's understood in fact that such strengthens you resolve as it's an act of commitment and understanding of what you are dealing with entirely, not stupid whims like fools believe it is.

    People live in delusions about what truly goes on in the world and it's because they have faith in what they believe, but Christ Jesus never said that faith was the key as most, so called churches claim.
    Faith is only the substance of.
    People believe in things like there preferred political party means X to them, but do they know the true working of it all ? if they did their faith would surely be tested ?
    If they understood the whole money games they would freak out, but blind faith is just as good as ignorance and we all know that ignorance is bliss, until the sh-t hits the fan.
    We are being sold out down the drain and most don't give a toss, because this is a degenerate generation that is happy to piss their inheritance up against the wall, not to mention all the past people who worked hard to built up this Nation and who died defending it are dismissed as less evolved bumpkins whose opinions mean diddle squat. we are all Marxist now and follow what we have been spun without question, not to mention don't question anything because if you do, you become a threat to such a Satanic mob and they will claim such as an enemy of the State, because they fear the truth, they even make claims that Truth is only what they deem only relative.
    Brainwashing tec is peddled everywhere to delude us all 24/7 and anyone who stands up to such trash is cast as a idiot, like D Trump and cast as a no body bumpkin, but if you are in fact just a good for nothing who's done nothing in his life yobbo, like Obama your glorified.
    We are being lead down into the same **** as the Nazis and Marxist **** kickers path and you don't even realise it. becoming enslaved to just total BS with all their cunning bag of dirty tricks.
    What's going to happen when all the peoples Super goes arse up ? well the Political Correct will have ways of dealing with anyone who steps out of line, just like in Nazi Germany and Communist Nations did, your Free Speech will be gone and you only do as they say.
    The Gays think they have had a win, but in fact they will come under the spotlight with a lot of ammunition to condemn them with, when the Marxist get total power they just use tactics as they do to play the great con job and they use all tactics for their own evil ends. Marxist are bastards beyond belief.
    The Satanic so called Jews created Marxist and the extreme right wing as a game play to delude the people. they are not Jews at all as Jesus points out the fact, they only claim to be 'Jews' (meaning Gods people). Jesus is the King of Israel, Satanist want a Marxist King ruling over all with a iron rod and that's what's coming in the NWO.
    It will all crash and burn but billions of people will be killed, the Greens have openly claimed they want to wipe out 90% of the people on Earth and who questions such a motive ?
     
  15. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Ohh how I enjoy your rants (only occasionally though, can't have to much of a good thing), it's just unfortunate I don't believe a word of this religious clap trap.
     
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  16. Zehq

    Zehq Active Member

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    Like all currencies (money), it's value is only based off an agreed value between multiple parties. Both parties in a trade must come to an agreement on the value of the currency. It's the basic principle of a currency. Precious metals hold their value as they have physical uses and cannot be reproduced (as there is only a finite amount of gold in the world).

    The same principles affect crypto currencies. What makes crypto so interesting is that it's more like gold in that it cannot be produced.
     
  17. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    And outside the control of banks/governments.
     
  18. Zehq

    Zehq Active Member

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    Theoretically, yes.

    Practically, it can still be abused with large amounts of equity.
     
  19. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Yes as I alluded to in a earlier post. One has to wonder what is driving the huge increase in value of bitcoin currently and who is funding that......
     
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  20. Zehq

    Zehq Active Member

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    Ah I must have missed it.

    Honestly I think it's pretty simple what's driving Bitcoin's increase. It's everyone.

    The hype around Bitcoin is massive and everyone wants a piece of the pie. Everyone thinks it's a get rich quick scheme with no consequences. Once the hype dies down Bitcoin will crash and everyone will bail.
     
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