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Diff/Axle/Brake gurus, I need advice!

Leigh_G

..forgot the sump bolt
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Aloha JC fam, I'm in need of some advice before I lose my mind!

Long story short I've done a disc brake conversion on my VH (VL diff) and she's chewed through 3, maybe 4 rear axle bearings almost instantly and it's driving me nuts!
Need some help identifying what's causing this issue and I'm sure someone here will know.

Here's the run-down:
- I bought and installed a low km (100k) drum-brake, 25-spline VL diff (Borg Warner)
- Drove around with the drums for a while, everything was great.

Disc conversion:
- Backing plates and calipers taken from a VR/VS ute
- Bought new disc brake bearings for VL (with the different oil seal to the drum ones)
- Pulled drums off, axles out and had the new bearings pressed onto the axles by local Ultra Tune
- I installed the axles with fresh bearings, new backing plates, new rotors etc

Drove it round the local streets for a day or two and I then heard what sounded like disc rotor rubbing on something - up on jacks, found one axle had too much end float and the rotor was touching the caliper and not the pad anymore - essentially the rotor was no longer 'central' to the caliper

THE ISSUE:
Pulled it all apart and found that the bearing cone's outer "rib ring" had sheared/broken off, allowing some axle movement. (The rib ring is the outer edge of the cone you can see that 'sticks out' from the bearing cup when viewed side-on out of the car)

Shortly after, the other side did the same thing. Sent axles off to my mechanic to do it all again with new bearings, installed them and at least one of them has done it again.. Exact same symptom.. This one didn't even last a 2km test drive around the block...
You can see below, the ring has ridden up the rollers a few mm - this is the furthest I've seen it happen..




WTFFFF
 
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Leigh_G

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At the moment, the other side * seems * like it's fine? there's no end play in the axle, and the rotor is lined up perfectly with the caliper. The latest destroyed one was fine and lined up perfectly too.. until I drove it..

A few points:
- with the drums on, the car was mint - this makes me think it can't be bent axles. The diff was in really good nick too, it only had 100k on it.

- I initially thought my installation procedure caused the first bearings to crap out...

First time, I tapped the bearing cup flush into the axle tube first, then slid the axle and bearing into the tube, and then tightened axle plate up by tighening the nuts on the studs in a cross-fashion to slowly seat the bearing home the additional 7mm or so.
I thought maybe this may have been the problem as the rib ring may have bound up being installed incrementally like this?

Second time I installed them, I just slid the bearing and cup into the axle tube as one whole unit, and with a block of wood, lightly tapped the axle until I could feel it was seated. This method felt way better but alas, it STILL failed...
 

lmoengnr

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First time, I tapped the bearing cup flush into the axle tube first, then slid the axle and bearing into the tube, and then tightened axle plate up by tighening the nuts on the studs in a cross-fashion to slowly seat the bearing home the additional 7mm or so.
I thought maybe this may have been the problem as the rib ring may have bound up being installed incrementally like this?

Second time I installed them, I just slid the bearing and cup into the axle tube as one whole unit, and with a block of wood, lightly tapped the axle until I could feel it was seated. This method felt way better but alas, it STILL failed...
Seat the outer races fully in the axle tubes before reassembly.
Dont try and seat the races by tapping the axle or drawing the axle in with the bolts unless you can constantly rotate the axle and bearing.
 

Leigh_G

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Thanks lmoengnr, it's cost an arm and a leg so far.. could've bought TWO of my own bearing presses at this rate ...:oops:

When my mechanic gave me back the axles, the outer race was 'stuck' to the bearing, not loose/separate - might have just been the blue bearing grease he used but I just went ahead and slid/tapped them in. They 'felt' good, in that they were smooth to install but I can't remember if I tried turning the axle mid-installation.. Maybe that's why one side has presumably worked, and one hasn't - sheer luck getting the bearing and race down the tube nice and straight without binding?
 

shane_3800

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You're not doing the nuts right.
 

Immortality

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You mean something is forcing the roller bearing cage into the roller elements?

Is that the correct seal?

edit: after you bolt up the retaining plate, is there any axle float?
 
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Immortality

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Just pulled out an old/spare axle and the bearing/seal look correct.
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-06 at 18.35.44.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-11-06 at 18.35.18.jpeg


I think your issue is there is no axle float when everything is done up. Possibly the axle is bottoming out before the bearing is fully seated which is making the seal force the bearing cage into the roller elements. I don't suppose you fitted a LSD center as well? I know that when the local diff place built my first diff they had to trim a little bit off the end of the axles to ensure there was enough axle float
 

Leigh_G

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I think your issue is there is no axle float when everything is done up. Possibly the axle is bottoming out before the bearing is fully seated which is making the seal force the bearing cage into the roller elements. I don't suppose you fitted a LSD center as well? I know that when the local diff place built my first diff they had to trim a little bit off the end of the axles to ensure there was enough axle float

From memory, no end float.. pretty snug. I'll pull the other side off in a sec and feel for any float.

No centre change, just swapped the bearings on the axles and slipped the disc backing plates on. That's why I'm going nuts, everyone says it just slips together and it's all sweet lol
 

losh1971

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Were the bearings pressed on, or belted on with piece of pipe. I pressed mine on myself and removed the old one too with a drill press and chiselled the hole in the retainer to make it loose, and I had no issues. This is the correct way to remove and replace wheel bearings on older Holden's. I've had a car where the mech belted them on with pipe and it caused problems with leaking.
 

Immortality

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This might help.
1636258259848.png
 
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