Dilemma _ VXR Vs Camry V6

[losh1971]

Some late model Toyotas use the CVT. Can't confirm that the Camry does but my experience of them is they are ok but can be a PITA if you want quick kick down. They spend a bit of time searching unlike the older transmissions like i have in the ute.

 

[figjam]

I said earlier that I do understand the loss of Australian car manufacturing and what it means to the fans, to me it happened 37 years ago when Chrysler pulled the pin on Australia.

The big difference there is, then you could migrate to another a large, 6/V8, Australian designed/built replacement. I have always shopped between Holden and Ford, even seriously considered a VF Pacer when they were released, (the 3 speed box nixed that idea) .
Oh, how we laughed at the Mitsubishi 380, now it would be probably 'a good thing'.
All this makes me wonder why the Stinger has not met sales expectations. ( "Because it is a Kia" is not a reason )

 

[StrayKiwi]

All this makes me wonder why the Stinger has not met sales expectations. ( "Because it is a Kia" is not a reason )

Here's a list of my uneducated guesses:

1. SUV's happened and doomed the large sedan market to a slow death. I think had Hyundai/Kia not developed the Stinger as a global platform they probably wouldn't have bothered to offer it down under.
2. Like it or not Kia is still an untrusted brand in these parts. I know a Stinger owner. Just the one, I haven't spoken to him for a while so I don't have the low down on what ownership is like. I think people are a bit wary about dropping nearly NZ$70k on a Kia.
3. There are still question marks over exactly what the Stinger is supposed to be. Fast executive transport? Muscle car? Family sedan? It's all of those things yet none of them.

I think the Stinger arrived a bit too late on the market, it should have been in Aussie since 2013 so the Ford/Holden owners could see if they could trust Kia enough to make the change when local manufacturing ended. Somehow it feels more than a little convenient it just happened to appear in the market at the time it did.

 

[losh1971]

From what I have heard from an ex car salesman and my boss who owns two Kia's one a stinger, is that Kia has come a long way from it's inception in regards to the quality of the build and finishes. However like I say to him "it's still a Kia, and not a real man's car". Unfortunately stigma sticks.....

 

[kos]

Kia sold over 2000 Cerato in Aus in May.
Ford 280 odd Focus
Holden dunno 400 Astra?

Kia are doing price product promotion right

 

[StrayKiwi]

From what I have heard from an ex car salesman and my boss who owns two Kia's one a stinger, is that Kia has come a long way from it's inception in regards to the quality of the build and finishes. However like I say to him "it's still a Kia, and not a real man's car". Unfortunately stigma sticks.....

I totally understand. Our other car is a Hyundai i30. There's no way in hell I'd have bought the wife a Korean car 20 years ago. The only consistent thing about them in those days was they were universally dreadful in every respect. Now they are up there competing with Toyota for reliability. But I don't need to preach to you Aussies, when I was over there Hyundai's were far more commonly spotted than over here.

 

[Badgerdog]

Friend on mine recently bought a Kia Stinger in their nice metallic blue and I must admit the ex Audi designer Peter Schreyer has done a very good job with the exterior styling. Inside its very much a Kia with most of the parts you touch like the steering wheel and switchgear feeling like they're straight out of the parts bin from a Kia Rio.

I understand they also head-hunted one of BMW's top engineers but he joined the Stinger project half way through and I would say his skills were sorely missed in the initial conceptualisation of the componentry and chassis design.

I test drove one for several hours over some very challenging roads and made the following observations.
1. All the interior touch points feel cheap and nasty including the seats.
2. The chassis feels underdone and heavy
3. The 8 speed auto is a current technology engine in numbers only, its light years behind a true high quality ZF 8 speed auto or the GM 9 speed auto
4. This is a very high boost engine, it makes virtually no power off boost and then it hits the boost and breaks traction...the transition between on and off boost is very difficult to manage and poorly executed
5. The car feel quite substaintially heavier than the ZB Commordore
6. Its more a GT car...its neither truly fast nor is it very agile.
7. Its a much thirstier engine than the V6 ZB and especially the 4 cyl turbo ZB
8. The 15 speaker Harmon Kardon stereo is very representative of the car itself, looks good on paper but lacks any real clarity or bass depth
9. Brembo brakes lacked feel and felt only average for Brembo's
10. Twin Turbo 3.3 engine making 272 kw's...all that complexity and extra fuel consumption for only another 37 kw's over a naturally aspirated V6 ZB...are you kidding me, where's the rest of the power ?
11. Its a Kia...at its core DNA its still a KIA...you get what you pay for.

It didn't float my boat but each to their own...

I liked the exterior styling and outright performance was pretty good but it is not what I would call a performance car...real performance is 350 kw's or more in my opinion.

 

[figjam]

^^^... interesting thoughts. I doubt if I will ever be able to evaluate one for a future purchase, but the initial paper specs, and hype indicated a worthy Falcodore replacement , but now that has died down, I dunno.
Certainly don't see many around, and can be confused with a Kia Optima, one of which is close to our place with a $10K price on its head.
I just know that a Sportage is fulfilling its role within the family circle with a minimum of fuss. (But, off topic, this is supposed to be VXR v Camry.)

 

[DG355]

Just nice cruising in a V8, and getting into occasionally to hear the note. My V8’s sit in the garage during the week and drive a Mazda to work.
The VSR is nice to drive and a great car but as someone has already mentioned Holden made a mistake calling it a commodore. A lot of traditionalists wouldn’t give it a look even though the VB was based on a European car from memory.
Think both Ford and Holden were making great cars( ford struggled at bit from 1974-2002) and a shame to see the market forces bring them to an end.

 

[Pablito]

One thing to consider is you might not be able to get the a ZB in V6 for too much longer. An article I read a few months back speculated that the 2020 series 2 insignia/commodore/regal etc were no longer having GM sourced motors in them. With PSA intending to use their own 4 cylinder motors with "lower co2 emissions and fuel consumption" the focus.
So maybe get the VXR and settle for the Camry next time......?

 

[tuckerbag]

One thing to consider is you might not be able to get the a ZB in V6 for too much longer. An article I read a few months back speculated that the 2020 series 2 insignia/commodore/regal etc were no longer having GM sourced motors in them. With PSA intending to use their own 4 cylinder motors with "lower co2 emissions and fuel consumption" the focus.
So maybe get the VXR and settle for the Camry next time......?

Bloody hell. I’m shattered lol

 

[StrayKiwi]

5. The car feel quite substaintially heavier than the ZB Commordore

Holden does not officially advertise the kerb weight of the ZB but if GoAuto.com.au is to believed the VXR (the heaviest of the liftbacks) weighs in at 1672kg. I feel this is a somewhat dubious figure but I lack evidence to the contrary, I'd suggest it's more realistically around the 1700 mark.

According to the Kia Stinger brochure the minimum weight of the GT is 1785kg and with options it can get as high as 1817kg.

I can see how you came to that conclusion.

 

[VS 5.0]

Holden does not officially advertise the kerb weight of the ZB but if GoAuto.com.au is to believed the VXR (the heaviest of the liftbacks) weighs in at 1672kg. I feel this is a somewhat dubious figure but I lack evidence to the contrary, I'd suggest it's more realistically around the 1700 mark.

According to the Kia Stinger brochure the minimum weight of the GT is 1785kg and with options it can get as high as 1817kg.

I can see how you came to that conclusion.

According to Redbook, the VXR has a kerb weight of 1737kg (https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2018-holden-commodore-vxr-zb-auto-awd-my18/SPOT-ITM-502355/) while the Stinger is listed as either 1693 or 1780 depending on model.

 

[StrayKiwi]

I'd believe that figure for the ZB, but I quoted Kia for the 3.3L GT model from their own brochure.

 

[Badgerdog]

https://www.autocar.co.nz/car-reviews-app/2019-kia-stinger-long-termer-part-1
Autocar N.Z. always weigh their test cars and 1794 kg's it is.

When test driving it I was coming out of a car loaner I was driving at the time which was the 2.0 LT ZB Commodore which some site's have listed at just 1534 kg's so with a 260 kg weight difference at the time between the Stinger and the loan car the difference felt MASSIVE !

Red Book quotes my ZB Calais V at 1683 kg's so more than 100 kg's lighter than a Stinger GT and then there's the much smarter and more efficient 9 speed auto.