DJR Team Penske Cheating?

[Immortality]

So the question needs to be asked, are DJR team Penske cheating with their engines? Scotty's Bathurst qualifying engine was found to be out of spec, in particular "the valve lift in a number of cylinders was found to have exceeded the maximum permitted valve lift prescribed by the ESD for Car #17. "

Full article, https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/full-decision-djrtp-bathurst-engine-case/

The engine was changed before the race because they were worried about it failing (or so they say) or the more cynical of us would say they knew it was out of spec and didn't want it in the car if he won and the car went through scrutineering?

Now I'm no engine building genius but you don't gain extra valve lift due to wear and tear so if wear and tear was an issue it is quiet possible that all the lobes on the suspect engine were out of spec and only due to wear and tear that they came in under? Valve lift is critical to making power in these engines so increased valve lift certainly does mean more power.

The DJR team Penske response, https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/djrtp-responds-to-technical-breach/

Team Penske seems to have a history of bending the rules in Nascar so is it a real surprise that they would try similar tactics here. I'm starting to think having the US outfit here isn't a good idea any more after watching the Penske interview after the Bathurst win when all he cared about was winning the race regardless of tactics used.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=team+penske+cheating

Debate away but please keep it civil.

 

[mpower]

DJR stinks. They'll be remembered this year as cheats.

 

[Deuce]

What is the valve lift limit?
Are these motors still running cam in block (or ohc)?
How far over? 0.001"?

Do they grind there own cam's?

 

[EYY]

Reputation of the team and the drivers has been tarnished forever. Totally against the spirit of the race. Even if they aren’t totally disqualified, they’ve lost overall.

Doesn’t matter how much extra lift the qualifying engine had, it’s no accident that it was different. Those things are blueprinted so parts are made with incredibly small tolerances to ensure they’re within spec.

 

[Immortality]

The Bathurst win is certainly tarnished. IF the engine anomaly was found at the time they would have started at the back of the grid which would have completely changed the great race. Gotta feel sorry for Scotty, he's just the driver, what the owner does is out of his control but I have serious doubts about the character of the new team owner and he's now pulled DJR down with him.

What is the valve lift limit?
Are these motors still running cam in block (or ohc)?
How far over? 0.001"?

Do they grind there own cam's?

No idea what the valve lift limit is but the cam is a control unit supplied by someone to all the teams and yes, still a push rod V8

 

[Skylarking]

All teams are operating at the limit of the rules and will continue to push the bounds of what is acceptable/allowable. Some will get caught while some will get away with it.

The farcical thing for me is the level of fine is not commensurate with the benefit obtained. Heck a $30k fine for gaining the unfair advantage which would have assisted in achieving pole position for the main race seems like such a bargain as they got to keep their win. So these days fines are just the cost of doing business

I used to watch racing before and up to and including when GTR was built to the group-A rules and clobbered the field. Sadly it was weight penalised and power limited into a sort of submission before being pushed out via rule changes. At that point I lost interest as it was just business and a commercial benefit to get the lab rat conditioned crowd supporting a Ford verses Holden inbred two horse race. That racing was no longer for me though I occasionally watch.

Anyway, cheats have been around forever and with todays mind numbing marketing and advertising, all seems to be forgiven soon enough; some tea? or sand paper and cricket anyone?

 

[Immortality]

This has nothing to do with pushing the limits as the cam is a control item. Lobe lift + rocker ratio = valve lift. Clearly they have played with something to increase valve lift and ended up outside of specifications. I agree though, the penalty is a joke. They should have been excluded from the Bathurst results period.

And your sand paper captain/crew should have been banned for life as well!

 

[Mattricho]

I do feel sorry for Scotty because the team has really killed the great year he has had.

But unfortunately I think the car #17 should have been stripped of everything from Bathurst because as already said he did qualifying on that engine and the top 10 shootout. No doubt he would have been in the top 2 rows but you just never know.

 

[figjam]

"The valve lift of the inlet valves in the Q Engine (but not of the R Engine) was measured by Supercars Technical personnel to exceed the Maximum Valve Lift of 0.710” in 5 cylinders (highest recorded measurement 0.7135”.

I have no idea what .0035 inches is in the real world, but it must be a lot in the Supercar world. Nobody will remember it in 2021 anyhow.
Melbourne Storm had 2 NRL premierships stripped, plus other penalties, for cheating the salary-cap. People were outraged at the time, and nobody cares now.

 

[Skylarking]

This has nothing to do with pushing the limits as the cam is a control item. Lobe lift + rocker ratio = valve lift. Clearly they have played with something to increase valve lift and ended up outside of specifications. I agree though, the penalty is a joke. They should have been excluded from the Bathurst results period.

And your sand paper captain/crew should have been banned for life as well!

Going past some hard boundary on a control item is indeed pushing the limits as I'd describe it but that's probably a language or semantics thing. Well, we do agree that the penalty was a joke but I'd go further and say that the Bathurst win should have also been canceled or excluded from the history books (not instead of)

As to "my sandpaper captain", I don't like cricket. I've tried to watch it but i get bored. The few times I've seen a game live, my attention wanders just as something occurs, but because of looking way at seagulls or other birds, I always miss the event