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DJR Team Penske Cheating?

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by immortality, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. markalan1two

    markalan1two Smile and wave boys !!!!

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    Definitely have include car 12 incident as that proves the win at all cost attitude of the team, i mean hold up the field for number 1 driver, use illegal engine to snatch pole and break records. Everything they have done this year is tarnished. Bathurst win should be taken away from the team and strip all the team points of them just to let them know there actions won't be tolerated. The V8 racing category is struggling and things like this are the cause.
     
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  2. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I think F1 has a bit more power and ability / preparedness to waive goodbye to people / $$$ than Supercars.
     
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  3. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    I guess the bending/pushing of the rules beyond boundaries will continue because it seems that is what they like to do.
     
  4. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    I seem to remember, a long Supercar time ago, that the COTF chassis and rules were to level the playing field and reign in costs. That has really achieved its aim, hasn’t it.
    There is probably more cheating now by the big budget teams than before. The days of measuring a carby jet, valve size and wheel width are gone. With all the computerised technical stuff, the teams are well positioned to be miles ahead of the scrutineers for knowledge and tricks.
    The whole circus has gotten out of hand for relevance, spectators and TV audiences are falling, and promotors have to rely on a dinosaur has-been rock group to generate interest.
    Chuck out the rule book, may the biggest pockets win. I have always thought that F1 rules should be 4 wheels, 1 engine and if it fits in a certain size box, then it complies … what they do after that is open. But, at least stipulate that the Supercar body shape should be as original, not a Mustang which uses a Porsche 911 silhouette as a design starting point.
     
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  5. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    That's the unfortunate thing.....It does certain seem, that DJR team Penske has the finances to push the boundaries and when caught, get the slap on the wrist......Not really fair on the smaller budget teams and I suspect DJR will be more closely monitored in the coming years as a result

    I won't get involved with the other sport discussion though, as I have a varying opinion to yours. We'll leave the discussion on the topic of DJR's indescretions
     
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  6. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ Fair? I also feel sorry for the non cheating teams but it's nothing to do with fair, it's to do with $$.

    At least the other DJRTP car got a massive $150k - $250k fine and a position demotion for their blocking tactics as it provided an(other) unfair advantage to their team mate. Yet the that team mate, who got pole using an illegal engine, gets to keep his win?

    Something just doesn't smell right :confused:

    Guess rules are set up with input from stake holders and sadly the ones with more $$ have the bigger voice.
    Rules for the rule makers, others need not apply :oops:
     
  7. blackve76

    blackve76 Well-Known Member

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    The sport is fucked ATM I've lost interest the car of the future **** has ruined it. Bring back hq racing( if any left)
     
  8. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    Yep, these latest episodes will turn more punters away. I generally only watch Bathurst and now that is screwed up too :(
     
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  9. Mattricho

    Mattricho Active Member

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    Just out of curiosity what happens with the money from the fines?

    I think that is should be split between the lower ranked teams based on performance like 50% to the lowest team 30% to the next team 10% and 10% to the next bottom teams.
    I think something like this could help with the massive money differences (not fix put help) and maybe bring some more competition from the lower teams.
     
  10. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Probably high fives and CEO bonus payments are increased :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Sandman

    Sandman Challenge Accepted

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    Fines are applied by Cams, and they keep the money. Doesn't stay within supercars. The engine thing is a weird setup all round including the timing of the announcement, but if its outside the rules, that's the rules. The issue with the slow down fiasco is they basically penalised Car 12 and the team but got of scott free with Car 17 who was the beneficiary of the setup allowing them to maintain track position and eventually go on to win. All whilst it ruined the race for many others further in the pack on different strategies. I gather there is not enough in the rules or the evidence to penalise car 17 for what went down so Penske played it very well. But penalising Car 12 which was already the scapegoat basically isn't a penalty as he was already sacrificed, and although $250k is the biggest fine that they could hand down, it is a drop in the ocean for the Penske empire. I just hope they revise the rules so this can't happen again in the future.
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Super Stock

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    Still, 3.5 thousandth of an inch is nothing. You would get that from different valve lash.
    More intake or exhaust flow could be achieved by seat profile.
    Would they have more power from this? 1hp more maybe, which isn't even a qtr of a % more power. You would be better to thin your paint a bit more and save weight.

    All seems strange to me.
     
  13. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    @Deuce, maybe the engine fiasco was the only way cams could penalise car 17 considering what @Sandman said.

    It could be as simple as CAMs couldn’t penalise the winner for receiving an unfair advantage from his team mate’s slow dow tactic so they found another way :rolleyes:
     
  14. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    Gotta remember this was a used engine, what were the numbers when it was new?
     
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  15. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ hahahaha, special DJRTP valve tips designed to wear down to legal limits after the required use :p just “missed it by that much” :cool::rolleyes:
     
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  16. Aussie Trev

    Aussie Trev Active Member

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    If the valve lift was such a non issues why did they use a different engine in the race? They obviously knew they were non compliant with the rules otherwise they would not have bothered to change a pole position winning engine.
     
  17. Deuce

    Deuce Super Stock

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    Fit a lighter valve springs that allow cam to 'throw' the valve for higher lift, drive hard for short time frame, spring goes soft, fit alternate motor with stiffer springs that can go the 1000km race.
    Perfectly simple reason to swap motors.

    Of course it could be anything and it's unlikely any press release will highlight the truth. So I guess we will never know.
     
  18. Deuce

    Deuce Super Stock

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    Probably the same.
    I wouldn't expect any measurable wear on a race motor of such few kms.
    Unless they forgot to put oil in it.
     
  19. Deuce

    Deuce Super Stock

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    This sounds like the most logical train of thought.
     
  20. immortality

    immortality No more smoky bacon :( Staff Member

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    ...and yet there was a fair bit of difference between the 8 valves. I doubt an engine builder that puts out work with such variation would be doing race engines for any team let alone a top tier V8 supertaxi team. I also though these engines were sealed to keep everyone honest once they leave the engine builders?

    It's called lofting and is an old Nascar trick (I'm sure it's no co-incidence that that is where Penske came from) but I doubt it as I think things like valves have minimum weights to stop teams using exotic materials. All done to make an even playing field.

    Something I wonder about though, are they allowed to change valve springs between races?
     

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