DJR Team Penske Cheating?

[Deuce]

...and yet there was a fair bit of difference between the 8 valves. I doubt an engine builder that puts out work with such variation would be doing race engines for any team let alone a top tier V8 supertaxi team. I also though these engines were sealed to keep everyone honest once they leave the engine builders?



It's called lofting and is an old Nascar trick (I'm sure it's no co-incidence that that is where Penske came from) but I doubt it as I think things like valves have minimum weights to stop teams using exotic materials. All done to make an even playing field.

Something I wonder about though, are they allowed to change valve springs between races?

So a race team isn't allowed to build there own motors to a spec? Where's the fun in that.

Yeap, nascar trick. But I was just proposing an alternative line of thought.

Again a sad state of affairs if a race team cannot build a race motor or maintain it between rounds.

That's a completely different event racing with sealed motors and/or hoods.

 

[Immortality]

It's been like that for many years now. Engine is very restricted with control parts and minimum weight specs on parts to prevent teams with big bucks using exotic materials.

 

[Boomslang]

Still, 3.5 thousandth of an inch is nothing. You would get that from different valve lash.
More intake or exhaust flow could be achieved by seat profile.
Would they have more power from this? 1hp more maybe, which isn't even a qtr of a % more power. You would be better to thin your paint a bit more and save weight.

All seems strange to me.

I agree, .0035" is the thickness of your hair, hardly measurable HP difference, definitely ain't gonna make you win a race, not a chance in hell. Notice how, not all tappets were set tight, or did the lash become tighter from the valves recessing after 1000km???
Did CAMS check any of the other cars???
I really don't understand why people bother following the whole Supercars Holden vrs Ford thing, let's face it , the only part on the Holden that is actually Holden is the badge as best as I can tell. They run a Chev small block 8.2" deck ht motor, Ford 9" crown wheel and pinion, and the heads are copied from Ford, so in reality they're more Ford than they are Holden. Pretty sad really

 

[VFSV6FORME]

Interesting! same habits but in two different countries. Personally I despise Cheaters and Penske fits that bill.
The Below was Quoted by immortality
"Here are the two ways of looking at it: Penske is cheating up its cars. Period. How else do you explain both Penske crew chiefs getting suspended for violations in the first eight races of the year? They cheated, they got caught. And if your team gets caught multiple times, in my opinion, the penalties should get progressively more severe.

It looks terrible for NASCAR’s credibility to have one-third of the races in 2017 won by a team that has been caught red-handed cheating up both cars. It makes this sport look like pro wrestling."

https://www.foxsports.com/nascar/st...ys-look-penske-nascar-cheating-scandal-050417

 

[Boomslang]

Interesting! same habits but in two different countries. Personally I despise Cheaters and Penske fits that bill.
The Below was Quoted by immortality
"Here are the two ways of looking at it: Penske is cheating up its cars. Period. How else do you explain both Penske crew chiefs getting suspended for violations in the first eight races of the year? They cheated, they got caught. And if your team gets caught multiple times, in my opinion, the penalties should get progressively more severe.

It looks terrible for NASCAR’s credibility to have one-third of the races in 2017 won by a team that has been caught red-handed cheating up both cars. It makes this sport look like pro wrestling."

https://www.foxsports.com/nascar/st...ys-look-penske-nascar-cheating-scandal-050417

 

[Boomslang]

Interesting! same habits but in two different countries. Personally I despise Cheaters and Penske fits that bill.
The Below was Quoted by immortality
"Here are the two ways of looking at it: Penske is cheating up its cars. Period. How else do you explain both Penske crew chiefs getting suspended for violations in the first eight races of the year? They cheated, they got caught. And if your team gets caught multiple times, in my opinion, the penalties should get progressively more severe.

It looks terrible for NASCAR’s credibility to have one-third of the races in 2017 won by a team that has been caught red-handed cheating up both cars. It makes this sport look like pro wrestling."

https://www.foxsports.com/nascar/st...ys-look-penske-nascar-cheating-scandal-050417

Yeh, you're right, cheating is cheating, that's why they have rules, but when there's large amounts of $$ that will always be the case. I remember talking to a well known head porter a number of years back.... he worked for a major Holden team ( not HSV)... this was when they were running the 305 VN headed motors... anyway they would go out to the Holden foundry and rub the port castings (this adds extra metal so heads could be ported in areas that normally would be water jackets)... I said to him "wouldn't you class that as cheating"? He said " the other teams are doing it"??? Maybe they were or maybe they weren't.. . who knows??? Pretty hard to police that. I did speak with Peter Brock once, when they were running the first Chev heads.... might of been 18deg heads back then( from memory), and he said that they would tell GM how they wanted the ports setup, so that the ports could be cnc'd to their specs.... nothing really wrong with that as the heads are really only made for cc'ing anyway.
Like I said, earlier .... I don't have any idea why anyone for bother following V8 super cars, they aren't Holden's & Ford's, they're purpose built race cars.

 

[Immortality]

Perkins did the head thing with Holden and it was technically within the rules as the heads came from the Holden foundry. There is a video floating about with an interview with the man himself and he explains what he did and how he was making as much power from a Holden motor as HRT were from the Chev but V8 Supercars mandated the use of the Chev motor and killed of the Holden donk as a race engine even though he was beating em still.

 

[VFSV6FORME]

Perkins did the head thing with Holden and it was technically within the rules as the heads came from the Holden foundry. There is a video floating about with an interview with the man himself and he explains what he did and how he was making as much power from a Holden motor as HRT were from the Chev but V8 Supercars mandated the use of the Chev motor and killed of the Holden donk as a race engine even though he was beating em still.

Yes Perkins was Force to use Chev Engines. I like the 8 throttle body Perkins had, It Did not have 8 Butterflies but had 8 slider that Slide away to give more air because the Butterflies restrict the flow of air.

 

[greenacc]

The biggest problem with supercars, and Formula 1 is all the stupid rules. They should either be standard street cars like the good old days, or race cars. Not the homologated rubbish we have now. Pretend Holden's and Fords that are all the same because the rules don't let anyone do anything different. So I say good on team Penske for showing that it's the rules slowing everyone down and that the sport would be a lot more interesting if the teams were allowed to build their engines properly!

 

[Immortality]

The biggest problem with supercars, and Formula 1 is all the stupid rules. They should either be standard street cars like the good old days, or race cars. Not the homologated rubbish we have now. Pretend Holden's and Fords that are all the same because the rules don't let anyone do anything different. So I say good on team Penske for showing that it's the rules slowing everyone down and that the sport would be a lot more interesting if the teams were allowed to build their engines properly!

I can understand some of the rules and rules are rules so if you break em you must pay the price.

I don't think you can compare F1 to Supertaxis. F1 create rules to slow cars down because if they didn't they would be going over 400km/h and the risk factor would be to great and as the premiere race category they also need to showcase technology. Unfortunately with the current generation of F1 it has become a tech race more than a physical race and with the restrictive rules once the cars are built not much changes. Hopefully the new 2021 rules will see a change.

As for the supertaxis, I totally agree that the race cars need to have something on common with the road cars. Seeing as their isn't even a real Holden any more the point almost seem mute. However, I can understand some of the engine rules which were designed to make the category more competitive by preventing the use of exotic materials which only the teams with the deepest pockets can afford. The #17 cars engine was found to be outside of the required specifications and they should have paid the price but they didn't and this will just make other teams want to push the boundaries with the rules too.