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DJR Team Penske Cheating?

Aussie Trev

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Back in the days of Holden V8's running in Bathurst etc, HSV used to plasma cut the inlet manifolds open along the cast marks, rework all the insides and then put them back together.
 

figjam

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Brock had a polarizer on his race cars, was that homologated ? No ........ so he was technically cheating.
 

Reaper

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I know I'm late to the party but here's my 2c.

With regards to valve lift - I suspect they built the engine to push the boundaries (ie lift supposed to be under the tolerance hard limit but possibly over the 'permitted' lift) which is within the rules but for whatever reason it went wrong, probably accidentally. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one - motor was still within the dyno acceptable power limits so it's clear no performance advantage was received.

FCO slowing the field down - very hard to argue anything else but to improve #17 track position (and FCO as well for that matter not needing to double stack) which is way outside the allowable 5 car limit as stipulated in the rule book. The look on Ryan Storey's face during the coverage spoke volumes and for me that episode was nothing more than cheating.

When it comes to 'team orders' - the concept is allowed in every form of motorsport. Team orders include instructions to pit, push (go as fast as you can), save fuel (slow down so you will make the end of the race) to name a few. The only difference is where each category draws the line. In supercars it's clear that the finishing position within the team (team mates moving over for example) is fine. Altering the outcome of other cars is strictly off limits (eg the FCO situation) or the celebrated F1 Renault crash contraversy that earned Flavio Brivatore a life time F1 ban a few years back. It can be a very grey area although in the FCO instance I think it is very clear.
 

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Brock had a polarizer on his race cars, was that homologated ? No ........ so he was technically cheating.

Depends on the rules of the day. I highly doubt a 'little box of magic crystals' was mentioned one way or the other. It's a very very long bow to conclude he was cheating.

There were other instances where Brock was fined (1989 Bathurst Pole position fire extinguisher over the inter cooler fiasco) and was excluded from the entire ATCC in the early 80's over using an illegal cylinder head.
 

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The biggest problem with supercars, and Formula 1 is all the stupid rules. They should either be standard street cars like the good old days, or race cars. Not the homologated rubbish we have now. Pretend Holden's and Fords that are all the same because the rules don't let anyone do anything different. So I say good on team Penske for showing that it's the rules slowing everyone down and that the sport would be a lot more interesting if the teams were allowed to build their engines properly!

I can understand some of the rules and rules are rules so if you break em you must pay the price.

I don't think you can compare F1 to Supertaxis. F1 create rules to slow cars down because if they didn't they would be going over 400km/h and the risk factor would be to great and as the premiere race category they also need to showcase technology. Unfortunately with the current generation of F1 it has become a tech race more than a physical race and with the restrictive rules once the cars are built not much changes. Hopefully the new 2021 rules will see a change.

As for the supertaxis, I totally agree that the race cars need to have something on common with the road cars. Seeing as their isn't even a real Holden any more the point almost seem mute. However, I can understand some of the engine rules which were designed to make the category more competitive by preventing the use of exotic materials which only the teams with the deepest pockets can afford. The #17 cars engine was found to be outside of the required specifications and they should have paid the price but they didn't and this will just make other teams want to push the boundaries with the rules too.

It's a commercial problem fundamentally. The good old days of Group A, C and even improved production of the 70's are viewed thru rose coloured glasses when it comes to competition. Really only 1 mousetrap had a realistic chance of winning (particularly in Group A) and everybody else made up the numbers. The manufacturers near universally bailed from Group A in the late 80's and it was superseded by Super touring, (what became) V8 Supercars and DTM which were all much better attempts at parity formulas. Group A was supposed to be a parity formula however the rules were very naive and were 2 - 3 steps behind technology at every turn.

Fast forward to now and the parity model is probably the best it ever has been. Going back to production based stuff just won't work. Look at the roaring (NOT!) success the Utes have been. Dual cab diesels are the biggest category in Australia by a fair margin so you would think it would relate well to the public. Seems not. I personally like them and look forward to the V8's back in them this coming year. Seems we are moving away from production again.

Supercar is not bad. I think the public will cop not being a production car so long as the silhouette is pretty close (need a heap of work here to make the Mustang fit). The last couple of seasons have been monumental for Supercar. 888 started by doing a massive job homologating the ZB - pushing the rule book as far as they could. Then DJR lifted the bar again with the Mustang. They dropped the nose which further highlighted the over height glasshouse exaggerating the comical look of the car. They pushed the limits with stupid heavy zorst mufflers (etc) to bring the COG down and according to a friend I have that works as a consultant to several of the teams, had the end plates of the rear wing running all the way down nearly to the ground. Apparently there is a forward/rearward control dimension, a max height but there was no min height in the rule book - that one did get thrown out before it made prototype stage (I'm told). Can't blame DJR - they build a car to the rules and would see what they can get away with. Seems they got away with most of it at least for the first part of the season. It took Supercars a bit to catch up.

Now to the question of what is popular - Production based? Nup. All that means is unreliable. Manufacturers and sponsors won't cop that any more. What we do need is a race car that looks like a road car and back off the wings a heap. Supercar are moving that way. Not quite the amount I'd like to see - ie minimal aero so the good old dive bomb pass into a corner can be a thing again without getting some stupid penalty. Parity is there weather you like it or not. Roll forward on control parts such as suspension uprights etc (they have introduced control dampers for the next season). The well funded teams are still going to win however the chances of BJR, Kelly Racing and the like of regularly snatching wins is far greater than they have now.
 

wagon37

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I've been up to Bathurst the last two years and it is still a great spectacle however it is hard to get energised about a "Mustang" that doesn't look like a Mustang and a ZB "Commodore" with a V8 when you know such a thing can't be purchased.

The Penske engine thing didn't bother me because it was such a small infringement and probably unintentional. The FCO slow down was probably a step too far.
 

VFSV6FORME

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A funny thing is I have a Friend that I have met on the internet and he is a Moderator on The V8 central site and he put a post on about all the dirty dealing of Penske how he has bent the rules and done anything just to win all the way back to 1975, Yes he Link this by googling Penske and he posted all the time that Penske teams have done this but it was DELETED by other Mods. Interesting! how to suppress the truth what available to all to see but this site V8 central http://www.v8central.com/snitz3403/
wants to hide the truth. He also said this site is FORD Biased so what do you think why hide whats available on the WWW, but on the nose what you stack them all together and see the times and what his teams have done in the past.
 
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