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Dreaded Cold Start Ticking....Again

Thomas_D

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Good morning folks

VF2 RL 35000kms auto

Had the lifters replaced with LS7 lifters about 3000kms ago as they sounded like a brass band on cold starts.
The lifter issue and ticking noise was immediately resolved however I've noticed a slight ticking sound again on cold starts, nothing horrible but it is progressively getting worse.
After about 5 minutes it goes away but the engine is a little noisier overall compared to what I remember.
I had the car tuned about 3000kms prior to these issues + mechanic (tuner) uses Royal Purple.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 
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VCoz

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Raises lots of questions. Is your car a 2016 build by any chance? Assume lifter roller damage was physically evident on the damaged lifter/s involved? Did the repairer (was it GM?) provide you with oil pressure reading reports before the replacement and was the cam also replaced? Was the oil checked for metal contamination before replacement of the lifters? How long did you run the engine before lifter replacement with the 'brass band' playing at starts? Did GM advise you no damage was occurring as a result of the noises heard? Did GM Holden initially claim the noise was characteristic piston slap?
Deflection and then partial repair seems to be the desired easy short term fix wanted by some. Did you get a detailed technical report - if so please post it and some on this site may be able to suggest where to go next so that you get off the likely repair merry go round.
 

Smitty

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... the SV340 LS3 in the Clubbie has always never been a quiet engine since new
with
little ticky tapping tappety noises on startup and they are still there when it is hot.

had a number of engine gurus have a listen and the general comment is ....
all aluminium engines with cam in block (not OHC) are always noisy with
obvious valve train movement quite audible.

60,000+ kms .. and the noises are the same (and not running the factory MOBIL1 HSV use
but Penrite GF5)
 

Derekthetree

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... the SV340 LS3 in the Clubbie has always never been a quiet engine since new
with
little ticky tapping tappety noises on startup and they are still there when it is hot.

had a number of engine gurus have a listen and the general comment is ....
all aluminium engines with cam in block (not OHC) are always noisy with
obvious valve train movement quite audible.

60,000+ kms .. and the noises are the same (and not running the factory MOBIL1 HSV use
but Penrite GF5)

Same, my mechanic listened to my concerning LS3 noises and wasn't concerned.
***touches all nearby bits of wood***

3000ks seems a quick fail... Over how long time wise? Put some fresh oil in it?
 

greenacc

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What grade of royal purple?
The fact that we are in the middle of winter might have something to do with it as well. Does it make the same noise on a warm start?
 

Skylarking

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... The fact that we are in the middle of winter might have something to do with it as well...
OP is from Sydeny andsupposedly the CBD has never recorded frost since records began :p So Sydeny isn't cold in the sense that a motor vehicle manufacturer would define as a cold climate :rolleyes:

The oil viscosity charts that manufacturers use to provide in older owners manual showed what oil viscosity should be used based on climate... Using a random chart below, as an example, if you got below -10C they recommend 5w-30 or 5w-40 weight oils but if you didn't see below -5C then a 20W-50 weight is ok.


1626766796505.png


I'd guess US manufacturers specify oils more for meeting their CAFE measures than for what is good for the long term survival of the motor. Such would partially explain how noisy these LS motors seem to be (thin oild for economy rather than thicker stickier oil for wear protection) :eek:
 

greenacc

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OP is from Sydeny andsupposedly the CBD has never recorded frost since records began :p So Sydeny isn't cold in the sense that a motor vehicle manufacturer would define as a cold climate :rolleyes:
View attachment 224394

I'd guess US manufacturers specify oils more for meeting their CAFE measures than for what is good for the long term survival of the motor. Such would partially explain how noisy these LS motors seem to be (thin oild for economy rather than thicker stickier oil for wear protection) :eek:
Don't believe absolutely everything you read without question. He probably doesn't live in the middle of the city ;)
Those charts are good info, more helpful than the 1 size fits all recommendation they give in most books now for every environment from -10 at the snowies to Darwin or even Sydney summer at 45.
Try starting the same engine at -5 with a 5W-30 and the next day with a 20W-50 and tell me you don't notice any difference. Also the different components within an engine will behave differently with different oils at different temperatures. So you might have noisy lifters with one grade and piston slap or chain rattle with another grade. I'm curious if the royal purple is a 5w-30 or something thicker.
 

Skylarking

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Don't believe absolutely everything you read without question. He probably doesn't live in the middle of the city ;)
What, people lie?... and here's me trusting what people write in their profile... At 120 years old, you'd think i'd know better :p
Those charts are good info, more helpful than the 1 size fits all recommendation they give in most books now for every environment from -10 at the snowies to Darwin or even Sydney summer at 45.
Try starting the same engine at -5 with a 5W-30 and the next day with a 20W-50 and tell me you don't notice any difference. Also the different components within an engine will behave differently with different oils at different temperatures. So you might have noisy lifters with one grade and piston slap or chain rattle with another grade. I'm curious if the royal purple is a 5w-30 or something thicker.
Its been said before by others, old holden owner manuals specified how to adjust valve cleanances while todays owners manual warns you not to drink the battery acid :eek:

Oddly, the Chevy SS owners manual actually specifies 5W-30 oil but in extreme cold climates below -29C 0W-30 may be used for easier starting. Still no oil viscosity chart of old but better than what Hoden specify. So yep, we're all being dumbed down by manufacturers with color coded caps within an engine bay (to identify what an owner is supposed to touch) and no auto dip sticks all pushing to frequent disposal and repurchase (yay for PO).

As i said, i suspect the one grade of oil is specified to suits fuel economy standards, not for engine life or quiet starts :rolleyes: But having said that, Australia isnt a cold climate by motor vehicle standards, heck even up in the alps, so that may explain only one grade of oil viscosity being specified :p

Will using something thicker than factory 5W-30 oil cause any issues or make the engine quieter, I don't know but many on this forum have said their engine builder specifies something a little thicker than standard. Others have said (for other engines/lifter combos) that they have bleed down issues so thicker oil may help...

Maybe @Thomas_D can elaborate what his engine builder specified w.r.t oil viscocity and what he says about the engine noisehe now has some 3k after the repair?

From my perspoective, engines shouldn't be noisy at cold start but i'm told performance = noise though i dont buy in to that unless its listed as a ferature in the sales brochures (which it ain't). YMMV :cool:
 
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Smitty

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..........................
From my perspective, engines shouldn't be noisy at cold start but i'm told performance = noise though i dont buy in to that unless its listed as a ferature in the sales brochures (which it ain't). YMMV :cool:

depends on what you mean by noisy....
a 5.0 Holden EFI engine on startup is quieter than ANY LSx engine
(and I have had them all... VR HSV to VX SS to VE SSv to HSV GenF)
and
even at a higher cold idle with a flat tappet engine (versus roller on Lsx)
a Holden cast iron V8 is quiet . Yeah there is still a bit of the sewing
machine but nowhere near the ticky thrash of an LS3
 
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