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Dyno results vs W310 pack = at the wheels?

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by JumboJim, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. JumboJim

    JumboJim Member

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    referring to my other thread regarding the upgrade to my SSV Redline -
    Xforce cat back + HSV headers and cats + VCM OTR + Tune = 259.5kw at the wheels.
    Can anyone throw any insight (guess) on how this likely converts to kw rating "at the flywheel" as I understand the Walky 310 is based on a flywheel rating? not rear wheel?
    Curious how my 259.5 result might compare to the Walky 310 results??
     
  2. duaned

    duaned Active Member

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    Is yours auto or manual?
     
  3. JumboJim

    JumboJim Member

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    AUTO
     
  4. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    Wheel numbers can vary by plus or minus 20% depending on calibration ... wheel measurements are a comparison tool, you can't read much into an absolute figure.

    So imagine a standard car, which will have close to 304kW at the flywheel, measures 200kW at the wheels before mods. Then within a day or two, after mods you get a wheel measurement of 250kW. This is a real 25% increase, so you could extrapolate about 376kW at the flywheel.

    To determine what increase over standard your figure of 260kW at the wheels represents, you need to know what the same dyno used to read for the standard car. There's a rough-guide rule-of-thumb that says flywheel,power will be close to around 130% of wheel horsepower, so very roughly you're looking at aomething near 330kW or thereabouts, but there's tens-of-kilowatts +/- in inaccuracy in that guesstimate.
     
  5. Towcar

    Towcar Well-Known Member

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    Also really depends on the car as to what the drive train losses are, generally a newer car should have more efficient transmission so you could expect the ratio to be a little different, the same with auto vs manual.

    260RWKW seems on par with what others have seen from an LS2 with your mods.
     
  6. markalan1two

    markalan1two Smile and wave boys !!!!

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    as above thats about right for the combo you have manuals are a little higher, do you have a w310 or are you just wondering about the comparison?
     
  7. JumboJim

    JumboJim Member

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    I was just wondering about the comparison to W310 that's all. As it's an upgrade promoted by Holden Dealers, I was curious how my DIY effort compared.
     
  8. markalan1two

    markalan1two Smile and wave boys !!!!

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    i'll say you have done well and saved some money along the way
     
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  9. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    Going by published figures on engine dyno vs chassis dyno on our car, auto drivetrain loss is 27%. So 330 at the wheels, well done.
     
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  10. NewbC4KE

    NewbC4KE Active Member

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    Good evening,

    Hope this helps you. I just recently had some performance modifications done on my VF W310 by a performance tuner in Blackburn, VIC

    According to their dyno the Walkinshaw tune returned a reading of 245KW at the wheels.

    Post W310
    - Proprietary Tune
    - CNC Ported Heads
    - Cam shaft
    - OTR Intake

    returned a reading of 323KW at the wheels.
     
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  11. JumboJim

    JumboJim Member

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    Thanks NewbC4KE!
     
  12. VinnieLS3

    VinnieLS3 Member

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    Willall Racing posted on their Facebook a dynograph showing a base run and then a run with Harrop's stage 1 kit (350kw) for a VF2 SS. Base run came in at 255kw and stage 1 run came in at 287kw.
     
  13. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    That's a manual, ~18% loss according to Harrop engine dyno.
     
  14. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Hey mate i had the w310 pack fitted to my l77 vf1 back in 2015. I have been having some troubles with my car ans was not impressed with walkinshaw. So I decided to take my car to a different custom tuner. He gave her a mafless custom tune and fitted a OTR (original walky came with a side intake cold box). I had this done yesterday 11/01/19.

    I got an extra 50hp at the wheels more than my w310 walky package. My walky gave around 260rwkw. With a mafless and otr added i got 300rwkw my dyno graph is on paramount performance toowoomba facebook page. Terry from paramount performance used a hub dyno.

    Cheers
     
  15. tml678

    tml678 Well-Known Member

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    With a w310 pack? Were they figures given to you by WP?

    The accepted flywheel to Rear wheel loss (drivetrain loss) is around 30% (in an auto). So in reality, I'd think it would have been more along the lines of 210-220rwkw.

    From what I understand, WP have a bit of a habit of over promising and under delivering. And that's not having a go at anyone on here, just seems to be a bit of a general feeling about them.

    Hopefully the bloke you quoted has got it sorted since 2016 anyway ;)
     
  16. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Nah, they've got more than that. 30% is too high for drivetrain loss I think. Mine had 206rwkw stock and with only a couple of thousand on the odometer. After my headers, cats, cat back, otr and tune, it was also ~260rwkw.
    @Tumble_roll 300rwkw is impressive for a L77 auto with bolt on and tune! Interesting your tuner did mafless. I thought the maf wasn't a restriction on these engines? Did he explain why he recommend mafless?
     
  17. tml678

    tml678 Well-Known Member

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    But it's possible (likely?) that yours was more than 310fwkw in that case 'Cuda?. Was that on an L77? I've read a bit about these WP packs and they just don't seem to pull the numbers they advertise, granted I have no personal experience with them. I thought ~30% was the accepted figure for auto drivetrain loss?
     
  18. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Yeah TML, mine is an L77 auto. In near new stock form, it lost ~21% (260-206 = 54kw) through the driveline. Adding back that loss after tune (260 * 1.21) gives 314fwkw. So, it's in that ball park I reckon.
     
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  19. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Hey mate. I have all of the receipts from the day i bought her new and up until now. Hsppy to provide any receipts. . Yeah wslkinshaw very lazy. I will defend that

    Summary of events:
    The original w
     
  20. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    Hi guys some points to clarify:

    My 2015 ssv refline vf1 is manual.
    The w310 was arranged thru holden when i bought the car new.

    When i had the w310 pack fitted walkinshaw provided me with a bogus generic dyno graph sheet. I asked at the time for a dyno of run for MY car.. they dont do that as they dont tune the car... they upload a preprogrammed tune.. for the money spent i found that really poor value. And walky dyno printout provided did show 260rwkw.
    So my baseline from paramount was walky which paramount confirmed for me independantly that it is 260rwkw for the 310kw w310 measured at the flywheel. My upgrade 300rwkw. I know dyno results vary between tuning houses. No my tuner did not give any specific reasons for mafless. I will ask cause i am getting him to also service it on monday for me. He also found a leaking exhaust manifold for me so that is also getting fixed monday.
     
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