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e85

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by ryan101, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. GH05T

    GH05T New Member

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    i have actually been interested to get a dyno reado out on 91 / 98 / e85 to see what the w310 pack actully puts down vs a friends custom tune. but specificlly with the e85
     
  2. Rajesh Koothrappali

    Rajesh Koothrappali Banned

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    For a lot of people who FULLY UNDERSTAND e85 there are no benefits.
     
  3. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Haha whatever just let it go, no time for ignorant shitstirrers.
     
  4. Rajesh Koothrappali

    Rajesh Koothrappali Banned

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    Then how about you stop? There's a thought... Take your own advice.
     
  5. Banjo79

    Banjo79 Active Member

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    So I filled up the beast with E85 when I found the one servo that sells it where I live. Hate the higher fuel usage on my 98 tune. Ok, that's the bad stuff out of the way..........
    This fuel really perks up the engine. It has a noticeable power increase, I'd take a stab at 3-5%, the engine runs a little smoother and starts with more ease, not to say it didn't start easy on 98, but when you turn the key it just starts with more eagerness and authority, f*$k it just starts easier.
    Now, on the way home today, unfortunately in a 50 zone I noticed that the auto can get into 5th at just 54-55kph (nearly 10kph less than when running 98) and if I slowed gently I could cruise at around 42kph/900rpm. I think someone posted similar findings, either in this thread or another. Getting into higher gears earlier may offset, to what degree I don't know, the higher usage of E85, again talking on a stock or 98 tune. I'll never find out cause I like to sit at a moderate rev range and gun it where isolated/possible/safe/legal but for those that are happy to lope along you may just claw a little bit of the value back. This, of course is assuming it will go into 6th proportionately early, I'll take a detour and find out tomorrow.
    Now to finish my ramble, what happens in the retune to adjust it from 98 to E85? Do you retain the power but gain some economy? If so, how is this done mechanically speaking? Also, would the price with most tuners be the full dyno tune price or is it a quick and easy finger dance and its done, I guess similar to an AFM disable - easy, cheap and quick?
    I am going to continue to use this fuel in the mean time, unless anyone thinks It will cause problems since KPM retuned for 98. Guess maybe I should check with KPM. Anyone on the stock tune could run this fuel 100% safely obviously if your cars E85 compatible. Anyway peeps, get out there and put a couple of tanks through and post up the findings........
     
  6. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    OK I'm starting a blog

    E85 can deliver more power than petrol at a given engine speed. Also a transmission would need to downshift with petrol to deliver the necessary power, but will remain in a higher gear with E85.

    There would be an additional fuel penalty associated with the higher engine speed for petrol when a transmission downshift is necessary.

    Another example of how E85 provides an additional efficiency advantage is through its lower exhaust temperature. Our engine tune uses a fuel enrichment technique to lower the temperature of the exhaust at high loads in order to protect exhaust system and other engine components from thermal damage, imposing a fuel consumption penalty.

    Comparing the exhaust temperatures of E85 and petrol at two load conditions (2500 rpm WOT and 80 kPa throttled), the exhaust temperature of petrol is higher than E85 by 20-30°C at conditions where spark advance is not pulled (knock-limited).

    During knock-limited operation for petrol, when spark timing is retarded, the temperature difference with E85 increases to as much as 100°C. Because the exhaust temperature of E85 is significantly lower than petrol, fuel enrichment to cool the temperature of the exhaust is not needed as frequently, giving E85 an additional efficiency advantage on a vehicle system level.

    Quantifying these effects on real-world fuel economy for E85 and petrol under various driving cycles and transmission configurations is fascinating to me, and I've started a blog on it. It think although quite technical this car, this place, right now, will be worthwhile nonetheless.
     
  7. HemiMagic

    HemiMagic Active Member

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    I don't know much about tuning or the E85. What I do know is that while more fun, E85 at 33 litres per 100 ks, is not something I do often.
     
  8. TinSnips

    TinSnips Polish all the things...

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    I'd use it - if I could get it anywhere within 45 minutes or so of my house. CBF to drive that far to fill up.
     
  9. Bhp Steel

    Bhp Steel Banned

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    :nopity::blah blah:
     
  10. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Another constructive post :yarr:

    You realize that no matter what technical reason leads you to that conclusion, logic suggests your economy on petrol under same driving conditions would be 26 l/100km. The consumption is not the point, torque, power, saving money and the environment is.
    Today same 100 km on e85 costs $32.50 whereas less power and fun more pollution from foreign-sourced, outmoded petrol would cost at least $7 more. e85 comes from sorghum plantations out near Dalby.
    Without iron ore being sold to the Chinese we are screwed, support domestic efforts (especially QLD!) with these easy yet smarter choices that drop in your lap (BTW your V8 ain't a Prius, and that's a good thing).
     
  11. monkey

    monkey Donating Member

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    Apologies if a bit off topic but what other cars do people know of currently running around or on their way that are capable of running this fuel or a mixture like the commodore can, from factory? It would be a shame if it all disappeared because of low demand.
     
  12. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    Are they trying to phase this fuel out? Holden seems to have removed capability on new models and it seems to be getting harder to get.
     
  13. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Over the past three and a half years I've visited flex fuel pumps around 350 times, number of times I've seen a VE maybe three, never seen a VF. The demand is increasing going by new pumps listed on United website, but not from the current demographic of new model Commodore owners.

    No, there's a lot of backlash from foreign oil, always a queue at the local pump, never once seen the pump removed (seen the whole station disappear though).

    Just to be clear, you can't remove the functionality from our car. I think perhaps it's not a priority because Caltex is not doing co-promotion like previous, same fundamental reason VF gets shitty Conti Tyres - GM doesn't make corporate brand partnerships / statement of direction for altruistic reasons.

    Bottom line is that it is much cheaper to make, tax free, and production is not subject to price volatility. It was selling for less than a dollar three years ago and the price has nothing to do with price of foreign oil barrels or price manipulation and gouging at retail.

    The whole supply chain suffers from a lack of heavyweight PR from stakeholders, including Holden.

    Caltex has committed the 20¢ thing until 2020, and United has invested heavily (for a bargain) in ensuring supply and promoting demand from the race / performance sector.
     
  14. offshore

    offshore Member

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    Its starting to piss me off and thinking of going back to 98. There is only two Uniteds in Canberra and bugger all around the surrounding country side and south coast and its not worth the bloody hassle. Ill loose about 50 rwkw but the convenience is worth it ive already got to much grunt for the street anyway so who cares.
     
  15. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Probably one of the rare few who could afford to lose 50rwkw! But your tune is flex anyway, doesn't matter.

    Caltex at Tuggeranong, United at Fyshwick, two going north - Sutton, Amaroo, Going south there's Michelago.

    Canberra to first United at Minto is 230km, Tempe is 270km, then cheapest ethanol in Australia, spoilt for choice.

    Canberra (Amaroo) to Melbourne (Whittlesea) is 600km, or United race fuel at Dooreen is 624km.

    On long runs between fills where you can't make it on one tank you are best off filling up just before halfway coz you will get most of the knock resistance and cooling still at 50% ethanol. Only drama I've ever come across eastern seaboard is VIC -> SA border Riverina / Riverlands Mildura to Murray Bridge. Also haven't been far south or east of Cooma (East Gippsland) coz there is nothing south or east of Cooma (East Gippsland).

    There's just one servo on the northside of Brisbane and takes me 10 mins from home.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  16. ryan101

    ryan101 New Member

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    You come to Whittlesea? My home town
    I've noticed only United petrol stations are around melb, none from there to port fairy
     
  17. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Yeah always outta fuel!! 230 Plenty Road carries e85.

    Check this out. 85% ethanol stops in VIC.
     
  18. offshore

    offshore Member

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    Its not flex. I was one of the first VF cars along with a car at VCM to use the twin intank squash performance return style fuel system and VCM still havnt ironed out the issues yet adapting the flex fuel sensor for the twin pump setup. So mine was setup to only use United E85 we didnt want to risk the engine using Caltex since it varies in the amount of E85. The factory flex setup is still on the car but disconnected.

    When they work it which they may already have Ill get it back on flex and reassess it then
     
  19. offshore

    offshore Member

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    Also Amaroo doesnt have E85 anymore and yes ive been there pulled up expecting to get it but no longer there.
     
  20. Noeleter

    Noeleter Active Member

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    B
    With only one servo on Brisbane Northside, seems to suggest not a lot of people using it. Or alternatively if it was more widely available more would use it.
     

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