Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

ebay alloy radiators

stockies

Bannana
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
1,011
Reaction score
53
Points
48
Location
S/E Suburbs
Members Ride
G6E Turbo
so much education and not even a "like"


sheesh.

Guilted me into liking it.
All that info is still in my head - your post is making remember things I've tried to kill with Bourbon
Hate feeling like I'm back in uni again.
 

ari666

250,000 hits
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
128
Points
63
Location
melbourne
Members Ride
1966 impala, R32 GTR
ahahah, im sorry, but i get in lecture mode sometimes (as you probably know)

the funniest times is when someone comes on who actually knows what theyre talking about, rather than speaking ****, and tears holes in my theorys.


this happens a lot

just keep your eyes out.


no one is infallable, at the end of the day even science is just a series of theories.
 

vkberlina

VK Madman
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
3,518
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Age
44
Location
NSW Central Coast
Website
www.members.westnet.com.au
Members Ride
VK EFI 5L, VK 134 Pack, LX8 Adventra, MF35 & MF50b
and so for todays lesson we are covering:

Thermal conductivity

Thermal conductivity (k, also denoted as λ or κ) is a measure of a material's ability to conduct heat. Heat transfer across materials of high thermal conductivity occurs at a higher rate than across materials of low thermal conductivity. In the International System of Units (SI), thermal conductivity is measured in watts per meter Kelvin (W/(m•K)). In the Imperial System of Measurement (British Imperial, or Imperial units), thermal conductivity is measured in Btu/(hr•ft⋅F).[12]

Copper has a thermal conductivity of 231 Btu/(hr-ft-F). This is higher than all other metals except silver, a precious metal. Copper has a 60% better thermal conductivity rating than aluminium and a 3,000% better rating than stainless steel.[13]

Thermal conductivity of some common metals [14]



Metal Thermal conductivity (Btu/(hr-ft-F)
Silver 247.87
Copper 231
Gold 183
Aluminium 136
Yellow brass 69.33
Cast iron 46.33
Stainless steel 8.1

source: Copper in heat exchangers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

now, lets understand a little bit out heat tranfer shall we.

the metals ability to carry heat means its able to dissipate it at a faster rate. if you heat a small section of copper, the copper will then transfer that heat evenly across its surface area. more surface area allows for greater heat loss, greater heat loss means its able to absorb and dissipate more heat. in the case of our radiator, thats EXACTLY what you want to happen. cool air blows over the evenly heated copper and allows it to cool faster, thus the coolant carrying all that heat energy allows the heat to be transfered and dissipated at a faster rate.

all good quality CPU and GPU coolers for PC's are made of copper. alloy being their cheap cousin. the more solid the copper (generally speaking) the better the cooling

all good quality heater cores were copper, but due to rising copper costs, most manufacturers have gone to the cheaper cousin, alloy

all good frying pans have a copper base

and so on, and so on, and so on.

the ONLY reason you would buy an ally rad over a copper one is cos' you want it to look good. problem with it is the ally wont be polished forever and eventually itll tarnish, so itll look **** and work ****.

whats that you say? "but ari, copper radiators are painted, if the ally tarnishes, i can just paint it"

well no, thats a failure too, because ally rads are that bad, that if you paint them, they effectively become useless as youve now taken away their surface area, which was the ONE thing that let them work.


having said ALL that, "copper" radiators are not actually copper, they are a mix of copper, brass and some mild steel. a good brand copper rad will contain LOADS of copper, but the cheapies will contain less, OEM spec rads have HEAPS of copper in them, thats why they are so expensive.

they are expensive, becuase they are worth it.

hope youve enjoyed your lesson for the day

This is as good as my 98 octane fuel writeup see how many times you repost this :)
 

mr j-man

New Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
GC
Members Ride
VH SL/E 355
Been running an alloy rad and 2x10" thermos for over 3 yrs...never a problem, always sits at 180f unless its a 32+ day sitting in traffic...then it sits at 190-95.
Ive ran a stock 5.0L and now my 355 with this rad and the temps are the same regardless.
 

Smitty

Moderator
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
2,433
Reaction score
1,617
Points
113
Location
Bayside Melbourne
Members Ride
GenF SV340 R8 Tourer, VK race car, ZX12R
and so for todays lesson we are covering:

Thermal conductivity

Thermal conductivity (k, also denoted as λ or κ) is a measure of a material's ability to conduct heat. Heat transfer across materials of high thermal conductivity occurs at a higher rate than across materials of low thermal conductivity. In the International System of Units (SI), thermal conductivity is measured in watts per meter Kelvin (W/(m•K)). In the Imperial System of Measurement (British Imperial, or Imperial units), thermal conductivity is measured in Btu/(hr•ft⋅F).[12]

Copper has a thermal conductivity of 231 Btu/(hr-ft-F). This is higher than all other metals except silver, a precious metal. Copper has a 60% better thermal conductivity rating than aluminium and a 3,000% better rating than stainless steel.[13]

Thermal conductivity of some common metals [14]



Metal Thermal conductivity (Btu/(hr-ft-F)
Silver 247.87
Copper 231
Gold 183
Aluminium 136
Yellow brass 69.33
Cast iron 46.33
Stainless steel 8.1

source: Copper in heat exchangers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

now, lets understand a little bit out heat tranfer shall we.

the metals ability to carry heat means its able to dissipate it at a faster rate. if you heat a small section of copper, the copper will then transfer that heat evenly across its surface area. more surface area allows for greater heat loss, greater heat loss means its able to absorb and dissipate more heat. in the case of our radiator, thats EXACTLY what you want to happen. cool air blows over the evenly heated copper and allows it to cool faster, thus the coolant carrying all that heat energy allows the heat to be transfered and dissipated at a faster rate.

all good quality CPU and GPU coolers for PC's are made of copper. alloy being their cheap cousin. the more solid the copper (generally speaking) the better the cooling

all good quality heater cores were copper, but due to rising copper costs, most manufacturers have gone to the cheaper cousin, alloy

all good frying pans have a copper base

and so on, and so on, and so on.

the ONLY reason you would buy an ally rad over a copper one is cos' you want it to look good. problem with it is the ally wont be polished forever and eventually itll tarnish, so itll look **** and work ****.

whats that you say? "but ari, copper radiators are painted, if the ally tarnishes, i can just paint it"

well no, thats a failure too, because ally rads are that bad, that if you paint them, they effectively become useless as youve now taken away their surface area, which was the ONE thing that let them work.


having said ALL that, "copper" radiators are not actually copper, they are a mix of copper, brass and some mild steel. a good brand copper rad will contain LOADS of copper, but the cheapies will contain less, OEM spec rads have HEAPS of copper in them, thats why they are so expensive.

they are expensive, becuase they are worth it.

hope youve enjoyed your lesson for the day

two things in addition to above (nice post btw)...

alloy rads weigh a lot less than a copper/brass jobbie and we know how anal auto makers are these days about reducing weight
plus as mentioned alloy rads are cheaper (not by a lot I might add)
and
consequently, no cars made these days I can think of have copper/brass radiators... alloy with plastic tanks seems to be the rage
or in thing as far as OEM radiators go (even heater cores are aluminium!)
 

ari666

250,000 hits
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
128
Points
63
Location
melbourne
Members Ride
1966 impala, R32 GTR
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
233
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Age
44
Location
Wollongong
Members Ride
VH SL Wagon
ok thanks for the info,
how about thermo fans? i have a clutch fan but want to get rid of it, i have a 16in thermo fan i have never used (so its free) which i have seen work well on other cars, or i can buy a dual fan to suit a vh ($200 from ebay) or i can buy an EF-EL or AU set cheap ($75) and mod to fit.
what should i do? try the 16in first?
 

ari666

250,000 hits
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
128
Points
63
Location
melbourne
Members Ride
1966 impala, R32 GTR
the fan itself means frag-all, i mean you should get a good quality one that wont break in 6 months, but the SHROUD will make or break the system.

the fan should be set off the radiator as far back as you can get it. min should be at least 20mm, then the shroud should block the entire rear of the rad and 'flow' into the fan, i.e. no corners or edges. all holes and whatnot should be blocked off and it should basically be sealed.

the reason for this is so that when in forward motion the wind is able to flow through the entire rad and out the fans oriface. a lot of aftermarket shrouds will block the unused section of the back of the rad, but its like a brick wall, so its basically cutting off that section of rad from actually working. youll get "hot spots" and the rad will lose loads of its cooling surface.

also good to note that when you have a GOOD shroud, to save the fans motor life you should probably have some means to shut it down at 80+ kmph, as the airspeed will start to force the fanblades faster and the bushes in the motor will actually try and act to slow the fan down. it basically means youll wear bushes out a lot faster. if its off the fans can spin freely at whatever speed they need to.
 
Top