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Ecotec auto to manual

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by vt1538, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. vt1538

    vt1538 455rwhp LS3

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    Can anyone tell me if there is any differences between the auto & manual V6 Ecotec apart from the obvious like loom,flexplate to flywheel,etc? I can get hold of an auto motor quite easy but will be running a manual car.
    thanks
     
  2. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Yes the manual ecotec crankshaft has two dowel pin holes drilled into the end of it. These two 8mm diameter holes locate two dowel pins between the crankshaft and the dual mass flywheel. The auto ecotec crankshafts don't have the holes drilled. There is a way around this though.
    It is possible to get an aftermarket Clutch / flywheel kit that has the two dowel holes drilled. But also a large single dowel holed drill into the flywheel that can pick up on the large 10mm+ hole that is drilled into all ecotec crankshafts. As there is two holes drill at different PCD and are of different diameters, one at 10mm+ and another at 11mm+. These holes are used in the manufacture process of the cranks to drive them while they are being machined and are not originally for dowels.
    A few pics might help here I suppose. The pic attached has a shot of a auto crankshaft. You can see the 8 x 5/16" bolt holes and the two large holes ( from the machining process) The 8mm dowel pin is laying where a dowel hole would be drilled if it was a manual crankshaft, there would also be another 8mm dowel hole opposite the pins location.
     

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  3. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Now this is what you can get to get around the problem of wanting to fit a manual gearbox to an auto crankshaft ecotec engine.
    This is what people converting to the T56 manual are using as well as a 5 speed convertion.
    Now notice the two blind holes drilled for the 8mm dowel pins when fitting to a manual crankshaft.
    Then the extra large single 10mm hole drilled for use with a auto crankshaft.
    A dowel of the right diameter can be machined up for use as a locator here.
     

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  4. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    I might add here to that if the flywheel is to be fitted to a automatic type crankshaft, the balancing needs to be sorted out. If it is a n/a automatic ecotec that is having the conversion to a manual gearbox then the flywheel needs to be mirror balanced to a n/a V6 automatic flex plate.
    If it is a s/c V6 ecotec which is being converted to a manual then the flywheel needs to be mirror balance to a s/c v6 ecotec flex plate.
    The n/a and s/c flexplates are balanced differently to suit the engine.
     
  5. vt1538

    vt1538 455rwhp LS3

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    Thanks for the reply mate. Should not be too hard at all
     
  6. TAILS83

    TAILS83 New Member

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    ok, so just to clarify, u don't really need the locating pins though do u. you can just put the manual flywheel onto the auto crank without modification if u didn't want to, just got to line it up.

    and just to save on making a new thread, what about the wiring side of things(is it a totally new loom required and what about the chip) and which manual can i use, T5 or getrag, i have a VT11 V6.
     
  7. HDT_aero

    HDT_aero Banned

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    wouldnt you need to find a manual ecu aswell
     
  8. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Yes you can bolt the flywheel up with out the dowel pins but I wouldn't.
    The bolts are quite small and the shock loading from a clutch may just shear them off.
    On the subject, malwood auto is doing a flywheel kit that will have the flywheel (steel billet) drilled to use on of the existing holes already in the crankshafts which is common to manual and auto cranks. Also another guy in Perth is gearing up to do a flywheel in Nodular iron with the drilling to use the existing hole. So there would be no excuse for not having a dowel pin.

    I think the getrag as it came out in the VT. Although I'm told the T5 is a bit stronger I don't think it came in the VT series so wiring maybe a bit tricky.
    Most if not all harnesses can be altered to suit. or buy a complete new one to suit the manual.

    ECU's can be changed over or have your auto one altered to suit once again.
     
  9. whisky

    whisky Guest

    *edit* blah
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2005
  10. Sycovs

    Sycovs New Member

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    I Would have to say i have had both T5 and the Getrag 260 and personally i would go with the getrag they are much stronger you will also notice they used them in the VZ onwards, There is a catch to using the getrag box if you do break them they are costly to repair, and if you need to replace the clutch they are also a hefty price compared to the T5 gearbox but all in all i found the getrag a nicer smoother less hasle gearbox and they really perform.
     
  11. DevilDRake

    DevilDRake Braaaap

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    By the time this post was made VZ's wouldn't of been out for too long.

    Useless for the OP as it was 5 years ago
     
  12. ecotec_vg

    ecotec_vg New Member

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    ok sorry to ask it again i have a vg ute series 1motor with a t5 5sp , long story short motor went boom and it was easier to get an VT ecotec than a buick v6. ive been told the t5 does bolt up to the ecotec with no problem. i have located a single mass flywheel to suit a VT ecotec, as i was said in the first thread u need the dowels to locate the flywheel on to the auto crank and the auto crank needs to be drilled out to suit the vt manual flywheel?

    And does any1 no what clutch kit i need and also have heard that the clutch fork on the T5 hits the pressure plate is this true?

    and last question, is there any other things i need to know or buy b4 setting out to do this conversion?
     
  13. holden300kw

    holden300kw New Member

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    What about a manual engine? can you just use any 8 bolt flywheel straight onto the manual crank? or is balancing still an issue?
     
  14. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Yes if it is a Ecotec V6 manual we are talking about. Then the 8 x 5/16" unc bolt V6 flywheel will be already a balance to suit the manual engine.

    Cheers

    Deek
     
  15. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Drilling L67 Crank for Manual Dowel Pins

    IF the flywheel you have has the dowel holes already in it.
    Then:
    Buy the correct dowels.
    Buy new T5 crank to flywheel bolts.
    Buy a new 1/8" drill bit.
    Buy a new 5/16" drill bit.

    Buy a Transfer Pin Punch set - Page Not Responding ... 0735697159

    Bolt the flywheel up loosely at first, when all bolts are in the correct position (remember there is one offset bolt hole) find the centre of the hole size clearance on the bolt sides. Do this by rocking the flywheel back & forth, once in the centre lock the flywheel bolts up.

    Use the correct size Transfer pin punch to mark the centre down the dowel hole of the flywheel, ( I used a 5/16" as I didn't have a 8mm punch).
    Work out the total depth needed to be drilled for the dowels (don't over drill the depth cause you may find you have weakened the crank flange).
    Use the new 1/8" drill as a pilot drill.
    Follow up with the new 5/16" drill & drill to correct depth. Remember it is only a noddy iron crank so wont be hard to drill.
    Note: The dowels are 8mm but if you use a 8mm drill it will always drill slightly oversize & your 8mm dowels will be loose in the holes. Using the slightly smaller 5/16" drill size will give the tight fit required.

    The dowels have a taper/chamfer on one end, this goes into the crank first.

    Get organised with a brass drift to hit the dowels with ( don't use a hammer straight onto a hardened dowel pin).

    Blow the swarf / waste metal out of the new holes. Follow up with some CRC type lube down the hole, but don't create a puddle in the bottom of the holes (we don't want hydraulic lock when fitting the dowel pins).

    Put the dowel pins in the freezer for about 15 minutes to half hour.

    When ready, do one at a time, quickly. Insert the dowel straight out of the freezer into the hole and drive it in with a hammer & brass drift till level with the flywheel bolt flange thickness.

    Another note: When drilling the holes in situ get a couple of friends with good eyes to eyeball the drill for square to the crank flange while you are doing it. It will be hard to fit all your heads in there, but you don't want to drill off at an angle.

    Good luck.

    Oh btw, some will say it is not necessary. It's your choice.

    Cheers

    Deek
     
  16. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Drilling L67 Crank for Manual Dowel Pins

    Oh btw,
    It would help with possible vibrations to get the flywheel mirror balanced to your engines original flexplate.

    There is a small difference in the balance between the n/a & L67's balance, or so the engine balancer people tell me, last time I got one done.

    Cheers

    Deek
     
  17. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Drilling L67 Crank for Manual Dowel Pins

    Part Number is 92116034 for the bronze spigot bush from GMH. List price is about $5.00

    You can use the stock T5 bolts - GMH part number is 92060691. Remember to TTY with the OEM T5 bolts. If you get aftermarket bolts they must be 7/8" (22mm) in length.

    Cheers

    Deek
     
  18. OZ38

    OZ38 Member

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    Drilling L67 Crank for Manual Dowel Pins

    HOW TO PICS & INSTRUCTIONS -


    Get engine down off the engine stand & turn on to it's end.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Support on blocks so as crank is not touching the floor. Also level up block end so it is horizontal.

    [​IMG]


    Seal any holes etc to prevent metal swarf getting into anywhere it shouldn't.

    [​IMG]

    I have a Jig I used, but you can use the Dowel drilled Flywheel bolted down in CORRECT location. White Paint Mark is for aligning Offset Bolt hole. (Important to get that right)

    [​IMG]


    Use a Transfer Pin Punch to locate hole centres - (Note: if using a Flywheel as a guide, a No.4 Lathe Centre Drill will work well as a starter guide drill.)

    [​IMG]


    Work out the total depth you need to drill to locate the dowels at correct height protrution. (Note: Stock manual crank dowels protrude approximately 9 - 9.5 mm, pins are 24 mm in total length with a heavt chamfer on end that goes into the crank.)

    [​IMG]

    I drilled for a total depth of 14.5 mm which includes the very point of the drill in that measurement. I ended up with about 9.2 mm protruding.

    [​IMG]


    Using a 1/8" drill as a pilot. Remove & clear swarf from it often as you drill to prevent swarf build up binding the drill & possible break off (you really really don't want that). Keep checking you are drilling true & square to the crank flange. Mark drill with paint pen for start & finish depth.

    [​IMG]


    Once pilot drill is completed. Drill using a new 5/16" drill to depth. Keep drill square & true at right angle to flange. Use the paint pen to mark start & finish depth on drill bit.



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Holes drilled. Remove Flywheel or Jig. Put new Dowel Pins in a easy lock bag with a spray of CRC lube. Pop into freezer for about 20 - 30 mins. Get brass drift & heavy hammer ready.

    [​IMG]



    When ready. Get pins out of freezer & tap into holes with heavy chamfer down into crank. Don't use the hammer direct onto the hardened pins, use a drift (softer metal). Drive all the way home before pins get time to warm up. Will be a snug fit.

    [​IMG]



    Job almost done :)


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Re-Locate Flywheel for dummy fit up.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cheers :D

    Deek
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
    chargedvx6 likes this.
  19. holdonvntt

    holdonvntt New Member

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    does any one know of where the after market fly wheel can be brought from please ??? if some one was to make a plate where you could bolt to the crank with the fly wheel bolts with the marks all ready lined up where to drill the 5/16 8mm dowel holes it would be a easy way round the auto/engine swap
     
  20. chargedvx6

    chargedvx6 Active Member

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    It doesn't get much bloody better than OZ38s info there. Any ARP bolt of the correct spec will do the trick. It's mentioned in this thread above. You could even buy a stock bolt from Holden to thread check it and then search ARPs web site?
     

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