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ECOTEC' CAM? Standard Engine. INDIVIDUAL

Discussion in 'Mace Engineering' started by vx_commodore, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. vx_commodore

    vx_commodore Member

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    VX Commodore V6 L36 Standard, 2 1/2' exhaust.​

    Hey
    I dident want to start a new thread, But i couldent find the answer's any other way

    The reason for the below is comming from a VP, Great reasonable power..The Ecotec is sad, It's almost dangerous.

    I have been contemplating getting high ratio rockers for a wile...
    Then i thought, Why cheap out on work?, I may as well go all out and get a cam...Fit it myself,I know how to fit them but thats all.
    I dont know much about preformace cam's, Only how to fit them.

    So for the past week i'v been reading up on cam's, Some say it's worth it some say there a waste of money.

    Im not up for all out power, I just need more torque, You know, Pulling out of roundabout's, Getting up to speed, Overtaking, Get that nice power feel.
    But as far as i see it, It's far better going with a cam over rocker's if you dont mind the extra work fitting it.

    I need down low - Mid range torque, Any extra is a bonus.

    I'v been looking on the MACE site at the stage 2 cam (216°/216° at .050"), It sais it's good for street, And you dont really need a hopped up engine to start with.
    So what should i look for? It's a completly stock VY engine, Will a cam give me the extra down low - Mid torque that im after? Or should i just go back to high ratio rockers?
    Will a cam work with a standard engine? I don't feel the need to spend heap's. If i dont have too!!

    I just want to spend a one off payment on a decent power increase, I dont want to have to keep spening money. Thats why i thought cam
    I am saving for a house deposit, So i thought, Get a cam, Better than HRR and still require more power.
    Will the cam work ok with standard trans?
    Get the cam, Install it, Get a mail order tune?? Or can the tune wait? Or is it 100% required right away?
    Can the VX ECU be tuned for the new cam thrugh mail order? What's the approx cost of the tune??

    Sorry, I have searched and serched but noting relating to a standard engine VX ECU
    Just want to make sure of a few thing's before purchace.
    Oh, The stage 2 (on mace site) be the best bet? Without having to go overboard in preformace part's?

    Thanx....
     
  2. acarmody

    acarmody Donati..Whoa Green

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    I have the MACE stage 1 cam and I rarely ever have to go above 2500rpm, unless I'm overtaking or something. I think it give me some nice low down torque.

    The stock VY Ecotec has 305Nm @ 3600rpm, I have 350NM @ 3100rpm. But keep in mind I also have a bit of raised compression.

    Tune is required at the same time.
     
  3. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    Hi vx_commodore,

    " The reason for the below is comming from a VP, Great reasonable power..The Ecotec is sad, It's almost dangerous. "
    We concur, the ecotec (in standard form) does lack that low rpm punch that the earlier 3800 V6 engines had. Holden designed the engine characteristics like that unfortunately, we however have ways to overcome these short comings.

    "I have been contemplating getting high ratio rockers for a wile...
    Then i thought, Why cheap out on work?, I may as well go all out and get a cam...Fit it myself,I know how to fit them but thats all.
    I dont know much about preformace cam's/work

    So for the past week i'v been reading up on cam's, Some say it's worth it some say there a waste of money.

    Im not up for all out power, I just need more torque, You know, Pulling out of roundabout's, Getting up to speed, Overtaking, Get that nice power feel.
    But as far as i see it, It's far better going with a cam over rocker's if you dont mind the extra work fitting it.

    I need down low - Mid range torque, Any extra is a bonus.

    I'v been looking on the MACE site at the stage 2 cam (216°/216° at .050"), It sais it's good for street, And you dont really need a hopped up engine to start with.
    So what should i look for? It's a completly stock VY engine, Will a cam give me the extra down low - Mid torque that im after? Or should i just go back to high ratio rockers?
    Will a cam work with a standard engine? I don't feel the need to spend heap's. If i dont have too!!"

    I wish it was that simple, cams are a great way to get extra power, unfortunately they generally move the power band up the rpm range. Certainly if you are happy to fit a cam then we would recommend it over the high ratio rockers. The stage 2 Comp Cams cam is decent grind and it does produce good results however it does move the power band up the rpm range a little.
    What we would recommend to start off with would be to fit our cold air intake and 25mm manifold spacer and 12mm plenum spacer, these items combined will improve low rpm throttle response and torque with approx a 12% increase in torque right from idle. These mods will also complement a cam install so there is no down side to these upgrades.

    If you are really set on low rpm gains then I would probably suggest the stage 1 camshaft as it's more suited.

    "I just want to spend a one off payment on a decent power increase, I dont want to have to keep spening money. Thats why i thought cam
    Will the cam work ok with standard trans?
    Get the cam, Install it, Get a mail order tune?? Or can the tune wait? Or is it 100% required right away?
    Can the VX ECU be tuned for the new cam thrugh mail order? What's the approx cost of the tune??
    Sorry, I have searched and serched but noting relating to a standard engine VX ECU
    Just want to make sure of a few thing's before purchace.
    Oh, The stage 2 (on mace site) be the best bet? Without having to go overboard in preformace part's? "

    The standard transmission will cope with a cam upgrade depending on its current condition. We would recommend fitting a large decent quality external transmission cooler if it doesn't already have one. We can alter the tune to increase line pressures and shift points to improve the way the transmission performs. Fitting a decent quality stage 2 shift kit and 2nd gear billet servo won't hurt either.

    We recommend tuning to suit when fitting a cam, running a performance cam on the standard tune isn't really recommended.

    We can supply cam and tune packages to suit, for the VX models the Comp Cams cam and tune packages are $810

    Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
    Bart
     
  4. vx_commodore

    vx_commodore Member

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    Excelent responce, Thanx for taking the time to read my long thread.

    I do have a stage 2 shift kit fitted, I felt the box was too sloppy before hand, It's great now.

    So you would reccomend the stage 1 opposed to the stage 2 for low - mid power?

    Yeh, I forgot to add, I never go above 4k RPM, Even 3k is rare around town., I just grampa my car all the time, Thats why i was looking more for torque and whenever i 'Google' I need more torque, Cam Cam Cam seem's to appear everywhere, People saying thats the only real decent option.
    But it would be nice to have a bit extra power if i ever did need it.

    So a stage 1 cam will be a lower RPM 'power range' than the stage 2?

    What sort of RPM would i have to reach to see the power range of the stage 1 cam?

    What sort of RPM would i have to reach to see the power range of the stage 2 cam?
     
  5. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    Hi vx_commodore,

    " Excelent responce, Thanx for taking the time to read my long thread. "
    No problem :)

    " I do have a stage 2 shift kit fitted, I felt the box was too sloppy before hand, It's great now. "
    Excellent, a very worthy investment in my opinion.

    "So you would reccomend the stage 1 opposed to the stage 2 for low - mid power?

    Yeh, I forgot to add, I never go above 4k RPM, Even 3k is rare around town., I just grampa my car all the time, Thats why i was looking more for torque and whenever i 'Google' I need more torque, Cam Cam Cam seem's to appear everywhere, People saying thats the only real decent option.
    But it would be nice to have a bit extra power if i ever did need it."

    I would, especially given your driving style.

    " So a stage 1 cam will be a lower RPM 'power range' than the stage 2?"
    Correct

    "What sort of RPM would i have to reach to see the power range of the stage 1 cam?"
    Very similar to the standard cam but with a few more rpm, approx 1800-5500rpm

    " What sort of RPM would i have to reach to see the power range of the stage 2 cam? "
    The stage 2 cam's power band is from about 2500-6500rpm

    Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
    Bart
     
  6. micky vn man

    micky vn man New Member

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    i personally would give diff gears ago first cheaper than a cam and from your driving style 3:45 or 3:7 diff gears would be the go ..or could go plenum spacers and bored out throttle body etc and get tune to suit.
     
  7. vx_commodore

    vx_commodore Member

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    I thought about diff gear's but given there cost and i do quiet a bit of highway driving i thought i'd put the money into something else, Ie cam.

    I have also thought about the spacer's but i just dont know, Im only budgeting around $700-800 for some power upgrade, And thats it.

    Thats why i thought cam, That's probably the best power im going to get out of my $800'ish, Seem's i can fit it myself.

    I think im almost settled on a MACE cam.

    Sorry bart, I have one more question relating to a tune.
    My girlfriend has a completley stock as a rock VX, Is there anything you can do to the ECU in the way of a mail order tune that will liven it up a bit?

    Was thinking i could send you the ECU in the mail and you could work some magic on it to get the most out of the stock VX.
    Also, Whats the cost of a tune like as above?
    I have no preformance shop's around my area, Nor anyone who can help me, Im not even sure they know what a car is sometime's, So i have to rely on smart preformance internet people's advise :)
    Thanx again!
     
  8. Dont Punch Rocks

    Dont Punch Rocks New Member

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    Would any of the above mentioned cams be suited to a turbo if one was to fit one down the track? Or is better to get a turbo grind after the turbo install
     
  9. acarmody

    acarmody Donati..Whoa Green

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    I personally would get a turbo cam and turbo together. That way you have a better 'combo' that compliments each other and you save a few hundred dollars on tuning costs.
     
  10. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    vx_commodore,

    "Sorry bart, I have one more question relating to a tune.
    My girlfriend has a completley stock as a rock VX, Is there anything you can do to the ECU in the way of a mail order tune that will liven it up a bit?

    Was thinking i could send you the ECU in the mail and you could work some magic on it to get the most out of the stock VX.
    Also, Whats the cost of a tune like as above?
    I have no preformance shop's around my area, Nor anyone who can help me, Im not even sure they know what a car is sometime's, So i have to rely on smart preformance internet people's advise "

    No problem at all. We can supply a tune to suit for $280 however I would recommend our bolt on upgrades first as the gains would be greater.

    For a stock standard car where economy is the primary focus we generally recommend our cold air intake and 25mm manifold spacer and 12mm plenum spacer. These items combined will improve fuel economy and make the car more responsive to drive.

    Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
    Bart
     
  11. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    Dont Punch Rocks,

    "Would any of the above mentioned cams be suited to a turbo if one was to fit one down the track? Or is better to get a turbo grind after the turbo install"
    The stage 1 cam isn't a a bad cam and work reasonably well with a turbo, otherwise a turbo grind would be the best way to go.

    As acarmody has mentioned, going a turbo cam at the same time as the turbo along with the tuning would be the most cost effective approach

    Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
    Bart
     
  12. Dont Punch Rocks

    Dont Punch Rocks New Member

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    Appreciate the info guys!
     
  13. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    No problems :)
     
  14. bizza12345

    bizza12345 New Member

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    Sorry to revive an old thread AGAIN :p
    But i also am now left with questions.

    I own a VX S Pack series 1 (01 model), with:
    Mace 69mm TB
    Mace 25mm manifold insulator
    full 2.5 inch exhaust
    mace recalibrated ecu to suit above.

    Looking for preferably more low-mid range torque.
    I am currently deciding between high ratio rockers (and what size ones) and cams.

    How lumpy are the cams? Being a P plater in vic obviously i dont want to attract much more attention than I already do, so if the cams are lumpy I don't want to have to walk home from wherever I get pulled up.

    I was thinking High ratio rockers for a good easy boost in power without a noticeable difference in how the car sounds. Discrete mods are the best mods :D And do they require anything else to be replaced or can i just put them in with no repercussions.

    but if buying a set of say crow cams(which stage?) off mace would be much better power gains, what else will i need to buy? Bigger lifters? pushrods? or can i just put them on? Will i need to buy another PCM and then get it tuned again?

    TL;DR: what i'm asking pretty much is what's my best bang for my buck, without making it too noticeable?
     
  15. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    Hi bizza12345,

    " Looking for preferably more low-mid range torque.
    I am currently deciding between high ratio rockers (and what size ones) and cams. "

    I would recommend either the 1.9 rockers or stage 1 Comp Cams cam. The stage 2 cam will move the power band up the rpm range so you will need to rev the engine more. I Would also recommend fitting our 12mm plenum spacer.

    " How lumpy are the cams? Being a P plater in vic obviously i dont want to attract much more attention than I already do, so if the cams are lumpy I don't want to have to walk home from wherever I get pulled up. "
    Check this link to see a youtube video of the stage 2 cam idling Idle Note - VS Ute - YouTube

    " I was thinking High ratio rockers for a good easy boost in power without a noticeable difference in how the car sounds. Discrete mods are the best mods And do they require anything else to be replaced or can i just put them in with no repercussions. "
    The high ratio rockers are a true bolt on mod, no other modifications are required to run them.

    " but if buying a set of say crow cams(which stage?) off mace would be much better power gains, what else will i need to buy? Bigger lifters? pushrods? or can i just put them on? Will i need to buy another PCM and then get it tuned again? "
    The Crow cams are fairly mild and can be run on the standard valve springs if you don't intend to sit on the limiter the whole time. When fitting a camshaft you will need to tune the engine to suit.

    " what i'm asking pretty much is what's my best bang for my buck, without making it too noticeable? "
    "Bang for Buck" would be our high ratio rockers :)

    Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.
    Bart
     
    Bradley Meyen likes this.
  16. justintravers84

    justintravers84 New Member

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    I was just wondering.is the vy v6 ecotec engine a dohc?
     
  17. HERONVY

    HERONVY New Member

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    No, they are a single cam engine.
     
  18. justintravers84

    justintravers84 New Member

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    Only asking coz im looking at getting one and am then plaining on doing major engine mods to it and b for u all say its not worth it coz its only a 6 I know but its something that I want to do and I plan on doing everything from porting the cylinderheads to cam,crank shaft,rollers and lifters,extractors,plenum spacers by mace,forged pistons,push rods the lot.I also plan on putting a stage 3 shift kit,hi stall torque converter and servo on my auto transmission as well as coilovers and brake upgrade.im just curious if im going to do all this work to it then what would b the best parts to go together like cam stage and what ratio roller rockers and like valve heights and that sort of thing.anyhelp with this would b greatly appreciated.thankz
     
  19. TI3VOM

    TI3VOM Active Member

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    One suggestion (if you are serious), don't ask questions yet, do a lot of research.
    I say this as you sound like you have no real idea & at this stage this is just a pipe dream.
     
  20. Bowen

    Bowen New Member

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    The give away was "is it dohc"
     

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