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Electronic Bi-Modal Valves

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by stooge, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    yeah they still work fine, it will sound better once I find a better mid section or I get this center muffler delete welded in
    [​IMG]

    the afm sounds like ass but that's something to tackle another day.

    the only thing I had a problem with the bi modal mod was the wire I ran to the switch did not have very good shielding on it so sometimes the valves would change state so I just put a relay down the back in the box and had the switch trigger the relay.
    I could not be bothered re running a new wire so it was the quickest fix lol but if you use wire with decent shielding it should be fine.

    the better way would still be to build the pwm circuit but finding that information will be hard because most people look to profit off things like that instead of sharing the info.
    there is one thread where a guy that has built a circuit he is selling but he also shared all the information involved(awesome guy imo)
    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forum...full-open-close-non-factory-npp-retrofit.html

    it is complicated though and it can be simplified using Arduino, oneday I will find myself near a wrecker in perth and snag a few more controllers then I will take a stab at building the pwm circuit but for now my hacked up set work perfect.
     
  2. Tripxit

    Tripxit Member

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    I've looked over posts regarding pwm but it just looks like a lot of work and I can't see any advantage over what you have come up with (for what I want, simple on/off). I may be wrong but your solution only uses power for short periods to open and close the valve (spring disconnected) whereas the pwm option uses voltage to hold the valve closed and springs back when no voltage.

    Just picked up a HSV E3 mid section to go with the bi modals. Hopefully it'll sound good.
     
  3. Mattricho

    Mattricho Well-Known Member

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    Here's a link to my series 1 SSV with a GEN F mid section and series 2 bimodels.


    Im also looking for a set of 340kw headers aswell but im thinking about a set of 4-1 headers instead of the HSV ones

    I also got the bimodels working by changing the bimodel valve and motors for some i got off eBay there's a write up in another bimodel thread on here
     
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  4. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is correct, the way i set mine up is to just pulse the motor for about 800ms with 12v to change the valve state and unhook/disable the spring so the valve remains closed while the vehicle is off.

    I did experiment with making a full pwm or stepper circuit with arduino but i found when i started the vheicle the fluctuation in voltage from starting caused the motors to move to a random position so it was an instance where "keep it simple stupid"(KISS) was required.

    For around $40 it did what i wanted so i am happy enough.
     
  5. Tripxit

    Tripxit Member

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    Sounds great. 340kw headers with aftermarket cats or Pacemakers was going to be my next purchase. Will see how the mid section will go first. Did you have to weld in bungs for the o2 sensors on the gen F exhaust? Ones I looked at didn't have them so settled for the E3.

    Did you use a bi-modal vacuum valve off a hsv?

    Is that Avalon Rd near Brisbane you were driving on?
     
  6. Tripxit

    Tripxit Member

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    Yeah price is good. Just purchased the bits from Jaycar today.
     
  7. Mattricho

    Mattricho Well-Known Member

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  8. TimjamisonSSV

    TimjamisonSSV New Member

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    HEY GUYS AND GIRLS HAS ANYONE COME UP WITH A SIMPLY PLUG IN WIRING SCHEMATICS TO JUST HAVE THE VALVE OPEN OR CLOSED??
     
  9. John Revill

    John Revill Active Member

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    Unfortunately it's not that simple. The values have 3 wires. +12V, GND, and a signal wire. The signal wire is not a simple power on, no power off setup. It is a +10V 200Hz PWM signal with 20% duty cycle for off and 80% duty cycle for on. Why that made it this complicated I have no idea. I have been working on a wireless control for a few months now, but there as been a cost blow out and mass producing them.

    https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/vf-bimodal-pin-diagram.256454/page-3
     
  10. TimjamisonSSV

    TimjamisonSSV New Member

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    What sort of cost are we talking??
     
  11. John Revill

    John Revill Active Member

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    It's at over $100 just for the parts, not including assemble of the circuit board.
     
  12. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    I managed to pickup another set of mufflers and controllers last week and these ones are not full of water
    I am working on the pwm one in my spare time but I am not very experienced in this type of stuff so it is a learning process but when/if I get it all working I will post the schematics and info needed to diy it.

    [​IMG]
    its all spaghetti now but like I said its a learning process for me too
     
  13. John Revill

    John Revill Active Member

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    I'm very interested to see if you come up with a design that costs less than mine. Over $100 in parts.
    https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/vf-bimodal-pin-diagram.256454/page-3#post-2988389
     
  14. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    Thats if i can even get the thing to work, my pwm signal looks square and operates upto 10v but my valve controller does not respond.
    I think its a hz issue so i am looking into trying to change that in arduino.

    i think your cost of around $100 for the parts is spot on.
    You might be able to lower the cost a bit by just using a momentary toggle switch and removing the rf remote and bluetooth but even then the parts will still be like $85+.
     
  15. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    You blokes are genius.
    Name your price. I'm sure you'll have a few buyers lining up with the reddies.
     
  16. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    ahh sweet thanks for that link john, i noticed you were using a nano board so i tried my nano and the valve responds now.
    I was using a leo board and I think that was the problem.
    now my valve controller responds to the pwm writes of 51(close) and 203(open)


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    i am not 100% sure all the values are correct until i test more but the valve controller is holding its self in the closed position which would prevent the spring on the muffler opening it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  17. abuch47

    abuch47 Active Member

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    What about these guys who provide a large relay box with simple remote. Are they doing the same thing and packaging it in a box attached to the fusetap?
     
  18. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    They use a replacement relay in the rear power panel.
    DEW_1955 (Medium).JPG
    I have this in my Magnum.

    DEW_1954 (Medium).JPG
    This is the controller.

    Electric bi-modal module.jpg
    A different version from another supplier.
     
  19. stooge

    stooge Well-Known Member

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    the lack of wiring on that makes me wonder is that for a vehicle that has bi modals from the factory and it just adds remote control?

    if the large relay you are talking about is the one lmoengnr has posted I think that's for vehicles that have bi modals already.
    the circuit I am making and the module john has made is to add bi modals to any ve/vf that never had them from the factory.
     
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  20. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    It does have factory bi modals.
    Would it be simpler, easier and cheaper to use vacuum valves controlled by a solenoid and switch?
    Are you trying to modulate the butterfly's, or are they just open or closed?
    The engine is a great source of vacuum to close the valves(normally open).
     

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