Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Engine rattle on down rev

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by losh1971, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    So i need some advice. The mains and big ends need replacing. Does this indicate a spun cam bearing. Or do these wear out anyway. I have no idea how bad the bearings are.
     
  2. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,787
    Likes Received:
    923
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Location:
    Vic
    Members Ride:
    VS Statesman
    Throw it out and start with another. That's the beauty of them.

    V6's are known for rods going out of round and need to be resized (just replacing bearings is a gamble as new bearings may grab and do further damage). Cranks can be ground but need index grinding to avoid snapping them. Have heard that the journals are just the right size, and with any added stress concentrators, they don't live for very long.

    Cam bearings aren't usually a problem - the cam spins half as much as the crank and isn't subject to nearly as much load. They very, very rarely fail. Yes it's a good idea to replace if you're doing a full rebuild but don't bother apart from that.
     
  3. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    I just went up to the mechanics and he thinks its unlikely that the cam has spun a bearing. The bearings don't look trashed, just a tad worn. He also said that with 1.5hrs of engine running the engine would be knocking like a bastard. He said none of the bearings are dry as he would expect if the oil galleries had blocked.
    Getting an engine is hard, I'd have to ask Dylan Kingswood to drive a 7hr round trip to deliver the engine he offered me. I have already ordered parts, just not bearings yet.
     
  4. gtrboyy

    gtrboyy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    319
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Members Ride:
    vt ss & lc gtr
    Aside from being boring n/a buicks don't usually stuff up mechanically.

    Sheesh got a good engine right here I can't even sell cheap or swap for parts...sump gasket & water pipe o-ring was all it needed lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  5. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    Buick engines in good running cond are a rarity in Tas. Ecos seem to be plentiful.
     
  6. someguy360

    someguy360 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes Received:
    287
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Members Ride:
    94' VR 304 - 05' Navara - 17' Focus - 12' Sorento
    Aw man that sucks, we can't give them away here.

    I think I've got one out a the farm that I tried to sell a few times and nobody wanted it.
     
  7. UTE042_NZ

    UTE042_NZ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    371
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2017
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Members Ride:
    MY17 Magnum Ute
    Just sounds like wear to me. As your timing chain is well worn one would assume that the bearings are too. If your guy reckons all the big end and main shells can be replaced without any crankshaft grinding that is good news and the shells have done their job as sacrificial wear components. May want to get him to check the top end (gudgeon pins and sleeves) while he is at it.

    Do you prefer a proper job or a cheap job? While the donk is out and being stripped, I would check everything and replace whats worn so the motor stays back in and performing for two more decades rather than months. New rings? Check the cam bearings for wear? Oil and water pumps?

    Look on the bright side - it will cost 25% less than if it was a V8 ;)
     
    losh1971 likes this.
  8. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    I have had quite a bit of interest in my VP Buick. I have had people from Hobart want it but that's a 7hr round trip. I had to say to a bloke not to come up from Hobs because it's too far for an engine that I haven't been able to get running for a good 30mins to do all the checks. I didn't want him to come all this way only to be disappointed when he installs it. I said go to a wrecker but I am wondering if even down south the Buick engines are becoming scarce. There's nothing in the north. Wreckers are just not getting in VRs or VPs much anymore. Go to the self serve near me and he has around 12 VS, some new stock but VR he has 1 or 2 and they are clapped out and stripped out.
    I wonder if VR just were never imported much, maybe because the new engine with more power was coming in 95? Bit like when the VN was talked about, people back then were holding off, waiting for the new fancy V6 to come out, rather than buy a VL.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  9. woteva

    woteva NEED 4 SPEED

    Messages:
    1,231
    Likes Received:
    871
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Location:
    Adelaide S.A.
    Members Ride:
    VE2 Sportwagon - VR2 V6 ecotec Wag - VS2 V6 Wag
    losh1971 likes this.
  10. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    3,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Location:
    Perth WA
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV Z Series M6
    5 Litre.....you know you want to.
     
    UTE042_NZ, woteva, Lex and 1 other person like this.
  11. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    Hmmmm, Losh 5.0, does have a ring to it. :D:D
     
    woteva, VS 5.0 and Lex like this.
  12. Lex

    Lex Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Likes Received:
    305
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Location:
    Geelong Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VT Executive S1 V6 Auto Wagon
    5 litre & 6speed, whether auto or manual sounds good?

    MMM but then LS, MMMM What about LSA? (Only kidding?)
    Something to think about?
     
    losh1971 likes this.
  13. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    Won't go as far a rings, as this is heads and manifold off. Manifold off and cam out to check cam bearings and they are a bastard to get right. Normally replace them on a Buick with full tear down. Mains and big-ends can be done by lifting the crank slightly. I have decent compression and virtually no oil burn. Heads off would be good to freshen up the top end but not needed so won't worry. Mani gaskets I replaced a year or two ago, another reason for leaving the top end alone. Even lifters I think might be ok as they are normally not too much of a prob on Buicks.
     
  14. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    Tad concerned with how far I am going on an old engine but then even if I could get a replacement locally there would still be the usual V6 oil leaks, chains that may or may not need replacing and bearings that are no better than what I have now. What is scary is the labor, parts wise I'm under $350. Where as labour I'd say I am looking at 12hrs by the time it goes back in. Now labour charge is not retail, so I will do ok but still the time taken is getting away.

    Just to add my chains have probably 10mm of flex and the tensioner has pretty much no tension on it, it's fairly floppy.
    It's definitely a gamble but then again even a V8 would be a gamble just a better result if it worked out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  15. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,930
    Likes Received:
    3,225
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Location:
    Perth WA
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV Z Series M6
    [​IMG]
     
    losh1971 likes this.
  16. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    Yep and that pretty much sum's it up. I just hope the gamble pays off.
     
  17. gtrboyy

    gtrboyy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,344
    Likes Received:
    319
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Members Ride:
    vt ss & lc gtr
    Put an Ecotec in it if they're plentiful...use vr ecu/harness etc.


    Or go nuts...go v8
     
    woteva and losh1971 like this.
  18. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

    Messages:
    6,855
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Location:
    NZ
    Members Ride:
    в∞ѕтεכ √&
    Acl Mains are 80 bucks same for bigends cam bearings cost us under 100 supply and fit with the engine still assembled .pop the frost plugs out and power wash the water galleries till all the rust and mud is gone fit new plugs and call it a minta .that's all we do to our turbo ones and they live for years at 450-500 rear wheel horsepower even on the stock rings.these engines are bulletproof I've never pulled a stock good running one apart and had bearings at copper yet
     
    losh1971 likes this.
  19. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,787
    Likes Received:
    923
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Location:
    Vic
    Members Ride:
    VS Statesman
    The v8’s are so much better for back yard rebuilds etc. Can do some horrible things to them and they’ll still last forever. Reuse all bolts, buy $60 gasket set and throw a cam in it for street cred lol
     
    losh1971 likes this.
  20. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Location:
    North Tas
    Members Ride:
    VR Ute V6
    I have ordered new mains and big ends too late to say no now. But for $125 for both they might as well be done. The cam bearings are not something the mech can do so they won't be done. The oil pressure was fine but the mech recommended replacing the crank bearings. I spoke to an engine builder, where i bought my parts and he said the big end caps are normally ok unless you lose pressure and they get slammed. Cam gears were a bit worn. Chain and tensioner were fucked. Got a better quality one, which will be good for another 300k. Yeah mech is banging in new plugs, possibly already done as he mentioned fitting them when i dropped them off late this arvo.
     

Share This Page