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front right tyre scrubbing

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by losh1971, Mar 12, 2020.

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  1. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    The outside edge on my right tyre is scrubbing and I noticed the rear one has too. Now I'd say the rear had already worn on that edge before it was rotated. Just curious at why this would be occurring? I get alignments around 6 monthly and it is always out a tiny bit. The passenger side is fine. I have had safety inspections done. The first time the left TRE was fucked it was so bad it would just fall over when it came off. It even had up and down movement. The right TRE has been replaced before I bought it, unless the factory ones had grease nipples. Mech reckons it's ok for an old bus and nothing to worry about. Appreciate thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  2. iana57

    iana57 New Member

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    if the suspension components are OK, like bearing or tierod ends, it could be a bit too much toe-in.
    if it was wearing on the "inner" edge it would be toe-out.
     
  3. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking something has to be worn. I wheel align at least twice a year and it stills scrubs the outside edge, the last report I believe should suggest that the inside should be wearing but it's the outside and only on the right. Trouble is the mech hasn't identified the worn component on that side. He was 100% when he inspected the ute a few years ago and told me all the problems i needed to sort as all the components (CA bushes and left TRE) which I did replace, as they were worn out. I am coming up short on figuring out what component is causing the wear. I would have NFI how to tell if a rack was the issue. I could tell if a TRE was worn but it does mean for me disconnecting it to have a feel and there is no guarantee it will come off easily without a ball joint separator. Crow bar and sledge hammer didn't work on the left side. It took a BFH hitting the BJ down from the top to get it out.
     
  4. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Just the way it is with commodores on full lock, It could be many reasons for it, lowered springs, worn struts or strut support mount, worn lower control arm bush, most vr are known for little scrubbing..
     
  5. mpower

    mpower Well-Known Member

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    i had this (inners not outers) after an amateur hour alignment (local mechanic).

    get it checked out by some experts like Fulcrum suspension.
     
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  6. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    I had an old car that would continually scrub one outer tyre edge while all other tyres would wear correctly... I went through front left tyres at a silly rate. I’d get full wheel alignment done each time but nothing could be identified as bent or worn.

    Finally went to a wheel alignment place that did large trucks. These guys seemed to really know what they were doing. They hooked the car up to their machine and actually diagnosed a bent left lower control arm. Replaced the lower control arm and all was ok.

    I later realised the bent lower control arm must have occurred when I had previously hit a large pothole at speed some years before. Oddly, back then I had it checked by a wheel alignment place with NFF. Then multiple wheel alignment places when the LF tyre outer would wear, again NFF. Why others who did much the same alignment couldn’t diagnose the issue I have no idea.

    So get your wheel alignment checked by someone who will bother checking the secondary angles. As is, outside edge tyre wear can be caused by positive camber, caster and toe but if you see edge wear on one side, check the thrust and setback ;)

    Also don’t dismiss bent chassis due to poor crash repair. Many manufacturers have dimensional underbody schematics with straight line measurements that can be used to check important suspension location points are where they should be :rolleyes:
     
  7. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    It has had a knock in the front at some point.
     
  8. mpower

    mpower Well-Known Member

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    in my case it was some suspension work that had been done. not a knock.

    you just need someone who actually knows what they are looking at.
     
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  9. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and there lies the problem, who to take it too in Launceston? Most workshops won't be able to easily identify the problem.
     
  10. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    If you want to follow @Skylarking 's suggestion of a truck place, have a chat to the guys at CJD in Launceston, Westbury Rd Prospectvale. They deal in Kenworth, DAF & Fuso trucks.

    Can't guarantee they will help but can't hurt to ask.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
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  11. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Its a Ute :) they’d be looking at a Ute :p
     
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  12. mpower

    mpower Well-Known Member

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    see you're already wrong, it's the suspension on a ute.
     
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  13. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Jokes aside, all modern equipment can determine most secondary alignment measurements. Stuff like SAI, IA, toe out on turns, thrust angle, setbacks and such...

    Most operators are time pressured so don’t bother with secondary angles (bosses want turnover rather then quality) or the operators are poorly trained in their job (bosses want cheap labour) or in some cases the manufacture doesn’t specify all angles/measurements other than the basic stuff like caster chamber and toe.

    You could read up on wheel alignment principles and learn a little yourself so you can better communicate with the guys actually doing the work (you may be surprised at both the level of knowledge and the lack of knowledge). Google is helpful.

    But I’d start by carefully looking at the vehicle body to wheel relationships at each corner and measuring a few things. An easy measurement front wheel to rear wheel on both sides, many cars i5 is supposed to be the same but some cars are designed to be different. I’ve seen cars with left front wheels shoved back 50mm when it shouldn’t have been and the wheel aligner had a CBF attitude. The wheels on a given axle must be the same distance from the vehicle center line yet I’ve seen cars with the rear axle shoved 50mm sideways (to the right) and wheel alignment place didn’t seems to care. Such things may not be an issue when driving straight but will cause tyre wear when turning.

    I’d be looking at a specialist wheel alignment place that works with/for insurance companies when some client has had a problem repair. Your insurance company may be able to advise who they use for specialist post crash vehicle alignment checks/reports/corrective actions when their clients have problems.
     
  14. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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  15. Trevor loves holden.

    Trevor loves holden. Well-Known Member

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    Just replace the arm and see how it goes they not that expensive, I replaced mine with new ones with the rubber bushers pressed in for around 80, its not a hard job to do, if your bushers are old and are rubber then most likely they need replacing anyway even the front radius bush could be torn making the wheel move back on braking I used those red ones as the rubber ones I replaced 12 mounts prior tore again.
     
  16. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, check the bushes in the right hand side lower control arm for signs of movement.

    2ndly, would you happen to have a copy of a previous alignment report? It might be something as simple a little too much positive camber, for how you drive the car.

    Finally, does the car drift either way, especially when new tyres have been fitted? Generally if the control arm is bent, or even a slight kink in the chassis, as a result of an accident, the car will drift...
     
  17. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    What a load of it Trevor....Commodores with full lock....Unless Losh is constantly full locking to the left and very little to the right, there is no way this is the cause.

    The only reason cars scrub tyres, is due to either wrong settings with the alignment, for how the driver drives the car, or worn/bent components
     
  18. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    The bushes in the arms are pretty new. TBH I am leaning towards a worn rack end or tierod end. I am wondering if this is why the alignment is always out a little each time they do one. I have had garages before not being able to identify partially worn components. I think ultimately think the TRE needs unbolting and both the TR end and rack end checked for slop.
     
  19. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    Alot of crash places, only want a quick alignment done and if a problem is shown up as a result of an accident, they don't give a toss.....They have made there million dollars from repairing a car and the tyre wear issues, or how it drives afterwards ain't their problem.

    I personally have had dealings with a multitude of crash repairers....I have pointed out issues with the car and mentioned it'd be a result of the accident....Response is basically, the job is finished and they'll cross that bridge if and when they come to it. I actually suspect they pass the buck onto the place that does the alignment, but can't confirm it.
     
  20. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    No need to undo TRE to check for rackend or TRE movement....Just have the wheel off the ground and whilst grabbing the wheel at the 3 and 9 O'clock positions, give it a jerk...If there is movement, you should feel it....
     
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