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Fuel injector failure

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by jono67, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Banjo79

    Banjo79 Active Member

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    Got mine checked today and 6 were at 14 ohms and two were 14.1. Old mate said he let the engine cool a bit to do the test and said it would probably test lower when cold. Does this sound right? I guess with them all testing practically the same, they can't be the cause of my rough idle.
     
  2. Tumble_roll

    Tumble_roll Member

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    1 x injecter (bosch) cost me $160 aussie. in stock.
     
  3. chrisp

    chrisp Active Member

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    A few basic questions for anyone who knows:

    (a) is it okay to check the injector’s resistance by simply removing the connector on the injector and measuring with a multimeter?

    (b) does the the battery need to be disconnected first or can it be left connected?

    And,

    (c) what is the acceptable resistance range for a good injector?
     
  4. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    yes only check when disconnected should be 12 ohms for LS
     
  5. jono67

    jono67 New Member

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    Hi mate, sorry I've been away for a while with no pc and crap phone reception. I haven't finished going through all the replies to this thread, but yeah it appears my Holden service guy didn't have a clue if they were Bosch or Seimens.
     
  6. jono67

    jono67 New Member

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    Hi Steve, as Skylarking had mentioned to me, you shouldn't be paying for anything. Write to Holden customer service via the Holden website, send them copies of your invoices. They should be replacing all injectors while reimbursing you for the labor.
     
  7. jono67

    jono67 New Member

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    Hi guys, as mentioned in an earlier reply, I've been away with no pc and crap phone reception. Just an update, on Christmas eve I think it was, I had lob in my bank account a full reimbursement for the first injector the Holden dealer charged me for. Nice early xmas gift, but they won't budge on out of pocket expenses while my car was off the road for near on 3 weeks. That one I'll be taking further.

    They said they had replaced all 8 injectors, and I must say my car does run a little rough on start up still, but I'm now not sure if that is running rough, or the fact that it's just a V8 and sounds that way anyway???? It's stock, no exhaust mods etc.

    Anyway, it appears that there are a few coming out of the woodwork now with the same issues. Guys, Skylarking hit the nail on the head, for the 10 minutes or so it takes to write to Holden customer service, do it. They shouldn't be able to get away with this, it appears those "bad batches" of injectors have been fitted to a wide range of years on the VF.
     
  8. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Member

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    I got the car back from service today. As I told them :

    4B421C08-8BF7-4BFD-B5F5-78B785E9BEB0.jpeg

    ETA end of the month.
     
  9. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    Good to see they came to the party.
    Least you figured it out using your torque app too.

    I use it on mine and my O2 voltages are consistent on both banks , as is my STFT's.
    LTFT must have been switched off by my tuner as can only get a read out on them when I put the standard tune back in before going to get a service
     
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  10. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Member

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    If the STFT is ok,LTFT would be fine if it was on. Whatever would be on the LTFT would be showing in the STFT.

    Budget is approved, so soon I will be doing my diagnostics and tuning using HPtuners MPVI2. I am just deciding on the wideband controller.
     
  11. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    true.
    ltft is just the average.
    my stft swing from - to + with 10% so happy with that.

    I want to get into this tuning thing but don't know where to start.
    have an auto cal and efi live used when I had my tune done.
    I know how to read tunes. log them and load them
    no idea how to even start looking at a logged run then playing with it!
     
  12. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    it is a continuously learning thing to take on and all i can say is read and read and read everything u can so u know what the tables do and what alse they affect when adjusted, best to get a wideband if u want to adjust fuel accurately even get a bung put in so u keep your 02's as well as the WB and wb should be before the cats, i use hpt and it is quite different layout to efilive but if u did want any help i can do what i can to help u understand it
     
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  13. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    Thanks mate.
    Its more of an interest/hobby sort of thing for me as opposed to getting too serious.
    getting a WB would be for all the serious tuners, but i'm guessing you can still use the o2 sensors as the same tool, just not as accurate?
     
  14. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    u will need a WB for any open loop fueling the 02's are only good for part throttle and are only accurate at stoich AFR
     
  15. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Member

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    There are plenty of material to read and videos online. Difficult is to filter the good stuff. Time is precious and if you want something more structured from a professional with lots of experience I would suggest hpacademy courses.

    I bought a few courses and I am very happy with the quality. The practical tunning course has a full example tunning a VE commodore.

    As 07GTS mentioned the wideband is essential for open loop which is the mode the car is operanting when flooring it. It also help to confirm you are achieving the desired AFR.

    One example related to the injector:
    My car has rough idle
    Impedance around 20ohms on cyl 6 and 40 on cyl8
    From OBDII dongle as I mentioned
    Misfire on cyl8 when idle
    Fuel trims are acceptable
    Narrow O2 sensors shows that the AFR is oscillating around stoic 45mV

    So it looks like the car is ok to drive. However, when I am being left behind by Stingers, GTRs, Barra turbos, Golf R , A45 etc....the car is in open loop an I can’t confirm the acceleration enrichment and the richer commanded AFR is being achieved. So I don’t know
    if it is safe to give it a go. So a wide band would let me know if it is safe to keeping losing street races until Holden finally gets some injectors in stock.

    I am just a learner but if you want to share some logs I have EFIlive on my pc.

    The other day I found out my wife’s corola uses wide band Sensors. But my 400hp car doesn’t.

    PS. The comments about street race is on a joking note. Please don’t take it seriously and drive with caution , use Waze.
     
  16. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    Cool
    Can we get wb 02s to replace ours?

    Re street racing.
    All good, does not bother me
    Everyone has done it at least once, anyone who denies that needs to self check
     
  17. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    u cant replace your 02's with widebands u have to add a wideband into the system, WB sensor and 02 sensor are very different 02's are 0-1v where the WB are 0-5v and will have a controller
     
  18. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Member

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    You can actually replace the stock O2 sensors with widebands if you use a controller which emulates the narrowband signal like the PLX https://www.plxdevices.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=897346002726
    It has 2 analog output, 0-1V and 0-5V
    The stock ECU will not get any benefit from the WB. You can save having to install another bung on the exhaust line but that is all the benefits.
    I don't see many advantage on it. If you have any problem with the WB controller you will get engine light on and limp mode for sure.

    Wideband add on is the way to go.
     
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  19. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    yea ive seen some of those but i still wouldnt do it, as u mention best to have it extra then if u have an issue with WB u can always check stoich point against it 02 v WB and widebands are getting quick now but the narrow bands can sometimes pick up any little blips where WB wont show much, im using one WB in each bank for my build im doing and tapping into obd data so i can pick both up with hpt as a PID
     
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  20. smurfmeister

    smurfmeister New Member

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    Well, mine need replacing as well. Started it up yesterday and was idling rough, dash message came up, i went direct to holden dealersip, they said straight up sounds like injector, they indicated they have had to replace a few recently, they checked vehicle there and then and confirmed #5 wasn't great. Told me holden recommend replacing the lot. I bought with 5yr warranty (2014 model) so just waiiting to book it in. I'm happy to get new set of injectors just before warranty expired, but it sounds like they are doing the right thing anyway. No complaints from me. Oddly enough it's running ok at the moment.
     

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