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GM ...... unbelievable !

Discussion in 'News/Updates' started by figjam, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. vs-lover

    vs-lover Active Member

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    Well the day has finally arrived, yes it's the 20th of October and the last 4 body styles rolled off the line a day ago. It was all a myth that the last car (a Red SS-V Redline) was to finish its journey off the line on the 20th. It all happened on the 18th with the last few parts installed on the 19th. (token effort just for the media)

    Today (20/10/2017) that last Redline sits in the Final Inspection bay under a massive bank of florescent lights for it's Media Ceremonial dunking. From there it will be transferred to the Birdwood Mill Motor Museum in the Adelaide Hills where it will be displayed in a custom made steel crate that was built by Adelaide's Kilic Engineering to protect it from all the Bogans that will want to put their paws all over it and have photos taken with it.

    After the Media show, all their employees will be bussed off to Adelaide Oval from the plant to have an official function, before being bussed back to go home and hopefully sneak past the waiting media.

    Really don't know why Holden are playing this secret Squirrel type of game as all their employees have spilt the beans over the last few weeks.

    Honestly it's all a bit like a Funeral and a wake afterwards here in Adelaide, The Spiritual Home of Holden, or should I say Holden & Frost.
     
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  2. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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  3. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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  4. UTE042_NZ

    UTE042_NZ Well-Known Member

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    Fucked meself sideways when I read this...
    That is almost $400 Million in potential profit PER ANNUM pissed away since 2003!
     
  5. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    when GM bought Saab , they were wondering why Saab was making a loss on every single vehicle they made it was because the models GM told Saab to base there cars on were in Saab's words ' Not good enough " so Saab pretty much changed every thing on them , they even developed at their own huge expense a much much superior GPS system , I think GM killed off Holden for perhaps similar reasons , and it began the day Denny Mooney started .
     
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  6. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    Heard the same thing. They got the bodies from Opel and Saab just been Saab improved them (higher standards). In a Global Manufacturing Environment is "taboo" to alter the Engineering, even if is for the best.

    In some bean counter's spreadsheet made sense to kill (manufacturing) Holden.

    Honestly, the G8/VE is the best GM I ever had by far. I consider insulting to rebadge GM products as Holden and sell them in Oz like nothing happen.
     
  7. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    Skydrol, I don’t know if you are aware of our previous attempts at building cars, but a short history lesson about the end of Holden. But, if you already know, my contribution filled in an hour for me………

    It really started in the early 1970’s when Leyland commissioned the P76. On paper, it was a brilliant car, suited to Oz conditions. But, like the committee who ended up with a camel, when they wanted a horse, it was ugly, and screwed together by a workforce who didn’t care about anything other than their ‘Union rights’. Exit Leyland.
    Chrysler (Valiant) was a pauper, trying to dethrone the king with a wooden sword. Indifference from the parent US company saw them decline to irrelevance. Exit Chrysler.
    Mitsubishi had poor starting points, but with major modifications and engineering on a very tight budget, managed to build good cars, but they were FWD, which at the time, were not acceptable to the buying public. Exit Mitsi.
    Nissan made a half arsed attempt, mainly to get around import duties and comply with Senator Button’s plan, which was another committee designing a horse, or camel, or maybe a donkey. Result ... Nissan gone.
    The Falcon should never had got as far into it’s production as it did. It was always a battle to get funding and approval. And they had to make sure that their designs complied with whatever fashion Ford decreed for its world products. The mention of the AU is enough to make the most ardent Ford fan change the subject. When Ford announced its exit from manufacturing, Holden and Toyota had to follow. Forget the Federal Govt, the domestic $$$$$$ didn’t add up.
    Holden were lucky to survive beyond the Kingswood. A period of procrastination by bean counters, and market forces, resulted in the VB Commodore. Similarly, the Nissan engine (shock horror scandal) in VL Commodore, which required a cash bail out by Detroit. Today, there is still a Court Order preventing a certain motoring journalist commenting about this.
    The VN >VZ period were a part revival of Holden’s previous golden years, and since then much has been written about why it has come to this.

    Holden and Ford (Falcon) have always been hamstrung by lack of funds, lack of understanding of local needs by US executives, and fiddling around the edges of what Holden and Ford really wanted, by overseas experts who ‘knew better’.
    Exports denied, reliance on Govt grants, indecision, ignorance, bad marketing …… there are myriad factors in the result.
     
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  8. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    Hey, thanks for the history lesson.


    In the US, car manufacturers encountered a triple whammy. The EPA, Insurance Companies and Oil Crisis. The Gov forced the cars to comply with smog regulations. That killed the engine power and reliability. Ins Co lobbied long and hard to create a safer car along with the stupid looking 5 MPH bumbers. The reason were more about reduce the amount of claims rather than safety. The CAFE standard were in force to reduce fuel comsumption. That killed the power output by a long shot. The only way to meet with all that in the 70s was to use the FWD platform and reduce size. US roads and believe Oz as well demands larger and tougher vehicles. Japanese cars were sh¡t boxes back then but they sip fuel. That was their foot in the door to the US market. During the 80s and 90s GM went all FWD (except few models). When Bob Lutz saw what Holden did in the 2000s he knew that was the vehicle the US need it. Pontiac was just a fade image of what used to be. So shipped the Monaro and Commodore as Pontiac to reignite the division. During the Gov Co bail out, the Gov ordered GM to sh¡t can Pontiac and the other divisions. In the states, the G8 is regarded as a great car and holds its value quiet well.

    Damned Bean Counters... they are joy killers.

    Have you read the book "Bean Counters Vs Car Guys"?

    A comment that Lutz said about Holden when they went to Oz. He said, that was odd that people placed Chevy badges on Holdens. To them was a message about why keeping Holden if the locals rather drive a Chevy.


    Oh well... things come and goes.
     
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  9. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    ......... one of the world's great unexplained mysteries, known only to those who 'know'.
     
  10. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    I believe it comes from the misconception that the LS motor is from Chev which is incorrect. The LS family of engines is GM and not tied to any one brand that GM owns.
     
  11. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Agree but try telling that to those who call them Chev motors. They think you're on crack and treat you as such.

    The bigger problem is the knobs putting Chev badges on alloytec cars lol.
     
  12. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    Which brings us back to Bob Lutz’s comment on it being strange that people put Chevrolet badges on Holden, you may as well blame them for Holden’s demise, not true obviously but who’s to know
     
  13. greenacc

    greenacc Searching for the billion

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    I think the Chev badge BS incomes from the olden days of the 350 chev motor people had in their kings woods. And of course V8s were cool and so chev badges were cool etc etc
     
  14. wildfiremaint

    wildfiremaint Active Member

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  15. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    GM Divisions had their own engines until late 70s and early 80s. Duringvthe 70s, the divisions suffered engine shortages and GM decided to install whaever was on hand. Costumers complained about why their Chevy had an Oldsmobile engine and Pontiacs with Chevy engines, etc... GM decided to make 1 powerplant of each kind. Odd is, the LS Engines looks more like Pontiac Engines. One way to identify a Pontiac V8 engine at a glance is by the Intake Manifold. Chevy engines are all 1 piece with the valley pan, Pontiac are separated.

    The only division that still make its own engines is Cadillac.

    Got the title backwards, is Car Guys vs Bean Counters. Anyway, this interview with Lutz on his own words, explain the insanity that happens behind doors at GM.

     
  16. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    and Holden had a Buick engine VN- VY , before that a Nissan engine in the VL , and a Cadillac / Holden engine in the form of the Alloytec HFV6 , in fact the 3.6 V6 gets used in several GM models .
     
  17. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    John Cadogan, and his 'Jihad on Bullshit' .......... you can love him or hate him, but I do enjoy his rants, and this one tells us just how much taxpayers money GM expected the Govt to tip in to save Holden for a few more years. Maybe we would have got the ZB Commodore manufactured here until about 2025, when it would have been time to re-arrange the deck chairs again.
     
  18. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    After watching Skydrol’s video about Bob Lutz, am I getting this right ?

    GM was a huge corporation building the type of passenger cars the USA liked, in a very inefficient way, but making a profit.
    The US Govt then mandated that these type of cars were not what should be built.
    In response, GM then started building small shitboxes that nobody liked or wanted.
    In the absence of ‘proper’ cars, people had no choice but to buy a shitbox, or a ginormous pick-up truck, which I understand is exempt from the rules that apply to US passenger cars.
    Somewhere along the way, GM incrementally moved from being a car manufacturer, to a business whose primary objective was to make profit, and lots of it, regardless of the product being sold.
    To make the required profit, GM has divested itself of ‘loss’ makers, and left market areas where the GM vehicles being built did not fit into their strategy.
    So now, GM is a not so huge corporation building the type of vehicle that nobody likes, in a slightly more efficient way, but still making a profit from US Govt bailouts, and subsidies from various other foreign Govts.

    May GM move in ever decreasing circles until they disappear up their own fundamental orifice.
     
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  19. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    I've been wondering how much earlier Holden would have folded if the GFC had occurred a few years earlier, when the VE was still being developed.

    Given that the VE was originally to have been so critical to GM's world wide marketing, it would never have seen the light of day. As things eventuated, it actually did break into new markets and receive positive recognition. in doing so, it probably forestalled Holden closing down much sooner than happened.
     
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  20. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    You nailed it.

    The regulations need to be revised in a big way. Cars are subject to a Gas Guzzler Tax. That is why the VE came with the L76 for the G8 GT version, G8 GXP with the LS3 had a $2,500 Gas Guzzler Tax. Back in the 70s, trucks were exempt of most of these regulations, including, laxed Emissions mandates. Manufacturers found a way out and erroded the Car market share. Trucks/SUVs became the family haulers that replaced the MiniVan and Station Wagons. If you look at it from the manufacturing stand point. It cost about the same to build a truck or a car. In the people's eyes, bigger is better and they are willing to pay more for a bigger vehicle.

    Dodge produced some called the Lil' Red Express and here is why.

    "Because of a loophole in the emissions regulations the 1978 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck's did not have catalytic converters, what the Lil' Red Express did have was a special High Performance 360 C.I."

    http://m.dodgeconnection.com/LilRedInfo.html

    Beside car manufacturing.

    Corporate USA veered to be a money making business. Yes, you need to make money to stay in business. But the focus has been changing solely in Proffits rather than Products for Proffit. Were I work, in the mission statement, has a pledge to the Share Holders. That tells to me, at all cost, we have to keep the stock prices climbing, regardless of what we fabricate.

    GM should never got a bail out, should fold. I bet, that will shake things up. Perhaps, Holden would be an independent company on its own.

    You have to notice, each time the Gov Co intervine is always for the worse.

     
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