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Discussion in 'ZB Holden Commodore (2018)' started by John a, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. John a

    John a New Member

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    Had my rsv since April it's a bloody good car traded a sv6 black edition.rsv handles and drives better than the vf. I find that most people ragging the zb haven't driven one also take into account this is what holden would now be building if people had supported holden and we didn't have a hostile government.only thing wrong with the zb is it's not built in aus.
     
  2. Lex

    Lex Well-Known Member

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    And NO V8!
     
  3. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    ...and it's called a Commodore!
     
  4. John a

    John a New Member

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    As was the vb through to the vt all based on the German opel .not Aussie until 've vf. As I said before if people had supported holden th zb is what would have been built now in aus.but sadly a hostile government and a population that wouldn't buy made in aus .so no more made in aus.
     
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  5. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Based on but modified and built in Aussie with Aussie engines etc. So although the Commodore started out based on a Opel it never really was an opel like the ZB is. From every model onward starting at the VB the Commodore became more Aussie and less Opel, hell it started out as a combination of 2 Opel's so it's not like they just picked up a model from Europe and built it exactly the same in Australia, nope, they basically re-engineered the drive train to suit as the original design just couldn't cope with the rough Aussie conditions.

    The VB Commodore was also a brand new model for Holden so it's not like they were re-using a name to sell a new model. It was a big risk for Holden but it payed off, this time round clearly not. The biggest problem with the ZB is that Holden/GM are trying to sell it based on the history of the Commodore which the ZB is not. The ZB is badge engineered with Holden just ticking a wish list of parts and GM saying ya or nay to what they wanted.

    Interestingly enough, a uncle of mine (in Europe) actually owned a Opel Senator which I have seen in person and you can tell they are different to the Commodore I have in the garage of around the same vintage.

    If you go back over all my posts on this subject you'll see I've never said the ZB is a bad car, it's just not a Commodore and the sooner Holden/GM realize that the better. Sell the ZB on it's merits and not on the goodwill of the Commodore brand which to date is clearly failing.
     
  6. John a

    John a New Member

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  7. John a

    John a New Member

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    I agree with everything you say it got better with time .and yes it was made in aus therefore better than the opel.i have driven see real senators in the late 80s mid ninety looked similar but not so nice to drive.but all those bleating about the loss of the aus industries if they had supported aus cars we would still have aus made cars and it would have been the zb made in aus and no v8.I know every Commodore I purchased from vk through to vf it was all ways the same by the would be experts why did you get one of them.because I happen to like holden and I was supporting Aussie made.
     
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  8. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    If it was totally re-branded , as say the Holden VXR , the Holden Evoke , and the premium the Calais , and do away with the Commodore brand , would it be more acceptable ? , I love Commodores , and I like the ZB , I like how it drives , if the Commodore badge was removed , it wouldn't sway me away from them . Because it still has the Lion on the front , even it is built in Germany , and soon to be French when PSA tale over .
     
  9. tuckerbag

    tuckerbag Active Member

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    Not to mention the gm pox that will surface in them in no time
     
  10. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    The Commodore is a med-large RWD sedan/wagon with V6/V8 motivation, the ZB is really non of these things and it fits in much better with the Toyota/Mazda/Nissan cars that we see on our roads today, calling the ZB a Commodore is the marketing people trying to set it in a different market segment to the cars that in reality it is now competing with.
     
  11. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    The issue is not local it's sales worldwide that we needed. Aust built cars have relied on exports for decades. Domestically car sales simply haven't reached the volumes needed for it to become viable and probably never could. Holden relied on exports to keep the Commodore going, we just don't have the population.
     
  12. John a

    John a New Member

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  13. John a

    John a New Member

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    True but the buying public deserted Australian made cars in droves and we can't get away from that fact.anyway it's all history now.
     
  14. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Anybody who still thinks Holden would be building cars here if sales were better is kidding themselves. Just have a look at what GM has done or is doing apart from shutting down here.

    Sold off Opel, who build far more cars per year than Holden did. Also removed Vauxhall by doing so as most Vauxhall models are Opel designed and built. Again, sales much stronger than Holden. Closing 5 US plants and 1 or 2 Canadian plants. What would their combined production figures be? Expanding production in Mexico and China, and there it is. Reduce costs by shifting manufacture to low income countries and shut down costly plants at home.

    Holden was always doomed.
     
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  15. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Too true, the best thing GM could have done is sold Holden before they closed manufacturing here but now it's to late. These days GM are only looking inward at what suits the US market and with the Don at the helm of the US and his "America only" stance battling all his frenemies it's only going to get worse.
     
  16. vs-lover

    vs-lover Well-Known Member

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    The other major thing to take into consideration is that Holden refused to act on Australian car buying trends. It's all about the SUV now and Holden just couldn't or wouldn't build one as they knew the writing was on the wall years earlier and thus weren't going to retool for such low volumes when they could set up in Shanghai with much lower production costs and eventually ship back here to Australia after their deal with PSA expires.

    Honestly I wouldn't buy a ZB in principle as in 4 years you'll be left on your own and without any parts for it as there'll be no support from GM for it, but then again all companies build cars with a vision that in 5 years they will head to Auschwitz for Automobiles.

    Fact of the matter cars are no longer seen as an extension of ones personality and things to own for many years. They are merely disposable items now.
     
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  17. wetwork65

    wetwork65 A wet business

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    Agree with your opinion completely, but the initial price should reflect the disposability.
    Hang on - is that why components are cheaply made. E.g. the EPS in VF Commodores?
     
  18. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    In theory parts for the VE/VF should be available for many years to come as many came directly from the GM parts bins but I agree that modern cars with fancy electronic modules certainly do seem to have a certain life span and that's it. It'll be hard to keep a VE/VF running in 30 years where as the older Commodores will still be trucking on...
     
  19. Smashfist

    Smashfist Active Member

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    Not really. The Commodore has been a mish mash of parts with some cobbling since it began...

    VL with a Japanese straight 6
    VN to VY with an American V6
    VT2 onwards with an American V8

    The only "proper all Aussie" Commodores would be VE-VF V6, but only autos as the manuals get a Japanese Aisin gearbox. First to third gen platforms were based off Opel designs.
     
  20. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    VB to VT with Holden V8 motors as well as the Holden 6's till the VL or are you just focused on the imported parts? Holden and Fords made in aussie also shared suppliers and used some of the same parts ...

    Yes the only true 100% designed and built Commodore would be the VE/VF series cars (using the GM parts bins) but still any VB to VZ is more Aussie than Opel. The ZB is badge engineered 100% and really isn't a Commodore other than name.

    So yes the Commodore was based originally off an Opel platform but much modified/improved to suit our markets, no matter how you look at it, it was made our own (by our own) unlike the ZB!
     
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