Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Hard restarting VR...1 hour wait.

Hotblooded_VR

New Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Adelaide
Members Ride
VR V6 3.8 Series2 Executive Commodore Wagon
Hi all. This is my first posting after viewing this site for the past 6 months. I have seen some suggestions as to what could be my problem but thought i'd outline what exactly the symptoms are. My VR Commodore wagon starts fine first thing in the morning but idles fast and roughly (just as though a manual choke is pulled out). When driving, it feels like the car is being pulled along the road without much accelerator needed. There is a small flat spot on acceleration most times also, but occasionally on what i call a "good start" that flat spot isnt there and the idle is better. The main problem is that after i have driven the car for even only a short time (like 10 minutes or more), it is almost impossible to start again after it's turned off. It belches black smoke when it does start and i have to really jiggle the gas pedal to keep it going till it smooths out. Once again i'll mention that it feels as though a manual choke is still pulled out and thats why it seems to have trouble starting when hot. Fuel economy is extremely heavy and there is a definate petrol smell when it is idling, although there are no leaks i can see. The engine management light (orange one on dash) can come on approx 2 minutes after starting and stays on for a few minutes then goes out and never comes on again till restarted, then repeats the cycle..2 mins into driving, 2 mins lit, then off. I have read quite a few posts relating to various sensors and i feel that one of the sensors is the problem, but i have no idea which one. I did have an oxygen sensor fail on it once before a few years ago, which gave me similar symptoms but I have had 2 mechanics check the car over the past year and both said the O2 sensor is fine. The car can get quite hot when idling also (1/2 - 3/4 on temp guage), but while driving the temp guage goes no higher than 1/4 or lower. It's very frustrating if I have to just run to the nearest shop 15 mins. away for some shopping then have to wait an hour at least before it will restart again (more or less "normally"). I have nearly flattened the battery a few times trying to start it and only pumping the gas pedal while cranking seems to get it going while belching clouds of black smoke, but that can generally take the best part of an hour in between rests. I dont know much about motors at my tender age of 57, but it seems to me it acts just like a manual choke or broken auto-choke vehicle and i know all the systems are computer controlled. Is there a way to get an error code without the need to buy an expensive hand held diag meter, and will the error show up even if the engine management light is unlit? Any help or suggestions will be so appreciated as this problem has existed for the past year and the cost of 2 mechanics plus the heavy fuel usage is killing me, not to mention a 15 minute trip can turn out to be long enough away from home for the missus to think i've run out on her! Awaiting suggestings with interest and hope i have entered my request in the correct part of the forum.
Hotblooded_VR
 

vr_shart

New Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
59
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
tassie
Website
www.myspace.com
Members Ride
vr executive
hi my car was doin exactly this and nobody could help, untill i asked a mates random mechanic, it was the petrol consumption and the petrol smell with no leaks that gave it away to the mechanic , in my car it was the fuel pressure regulator, see without the pressure im pretty sure it just burns pure fuel in your car , my car would not start either it would blow smoke and start perfect of a cold morning, the fuel pressure regulator is situated at the end of the fuel rail on the drivers side it is a little silver ,like a cylynder type thingy that plugs into the end of the fuel rail and has a little black hose about 10 cms long goin to the intake, to check if this has blown, drive the car then pull the little black hose off the little silver thing and the intake and put your finger on the hole of the fuel pressure regulator where the little hose came from, now if fuel spills onto your finger it is gone this is where the pertol smell comes from and a new one cost me 70 dollars which wasnt to bad considering i was going to get a new fuel pump and hope it worked , anyway hope this helps let me know :)
 

VrWagz1

The Wagon on Wheels..
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
2,438
Reaction score
29
Points
48
Location
wollongong
Website
www.wagzhome.justcommodores.com.au
Members Ride
VE SSV MY09 Auto Wagon
I think at the top of the VR/S section thereis a sticky that tells how to check error codes......
found it https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/checking-error-codes-vr-vs-revised.22307 was a sticky at the top of the how-to section.

Grab the code and post back up. I'm actually thinking you have multiple issues. Fuel pressure sounds like it could be one issue. But i'd say TPS sounds dicky and the coolant temp sensor(which will tell the ecu how hot the car is so it can richen the fuel mixture when its cold just like the old choke).

But grab that code and it will lead you straight to the problem hopfully.
 

Hotblooded_VR

New Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Adelaide
Members Ride
VR V6 3.8 Series2 Executive Commodore Wagon
Thanks vr_shart for that great description and I understood every bit of what you were telling me to try. I actually had an RAA (Adelaide) mechanic check that fuel pressure regulator the very same way and it's clean as a whistle with no fuel drip. I doubled checked today just to be sure anyway, so back to the drawing board, but now armed with error codes as Vrwagz1 kindly gave me the link. Thankyou to both of you for your responses..ok..I found out I would have been hopeless at sea if I had to read Morse code...I sat in the car for about 30 minutes i guess running the codes over and over so i got them right..I'm a bass player so I need to triple check things..so my drummer says..lol
Error Codes in order and I hope you guys can tell me how to locate any sensors relating to the faults or suggestions to other actions if necessary...

Error Codes:

21 - Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Voltage Too High (Automatic VR only)..which I have.

31 - Theft Deterrent Signal Missing (which I presume is probably related to a flat battery in my key?).

34 - Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP) Voltage Too Low (No idea..I'm a bass player).

51 - MemCal Unit (PROM) (and that doesnt sound healthy to me grrrr).

Those are the 4 I counted but thought I counted a 61 as well but there is no error code for that..possibly because I went over them so many times I muddled up the 61 but I was darn sure I counted 6 flashes than a 1..oh well..I'll have another look tomorrow and double check. What i've listed should be a head start anyway.

Thanks VR owners. I'll check back tomorrow for the bad news.
 

delcowizzid

on holiday
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
6,993
Reaction score
434
Points
83
Location
NZ
Members Ride
в∞ѕтεכ √&
pull the negative battery terminal off for 5 minutes to reset the codes stored in the ecu and retest after a drive and see if you get the same codes
 

Hotblooded_VR

New Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Adelaide
Members Ride
VR V6 3.8 Series2 Executive Commodore Wagon
Thanks Delco..I'm trying that now...I want to be sure I have clean codes and hopefully some might disappear after I get back from a little drive and I recheck...I'll post again in an hour or so. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

OzJD

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
288
Reaction score
2
Points
18
Location
Bankstown, NSW
Website
jeltel.com.au
Members Ride
2010 Holden Caprice V II (V8)
Definately sounds like the Fuel Pressure Regulator to me, I had the same issues, it didn't leak though as was described earler.
Car was hard to start, blew black smoke, using more fuel than V8, check engine light intermittent.

Definately sounds like FPR to me mate.

What location are you in?
 

Hotblooded_VR

New Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Adelaide
Members Ride
VR V6 3.8 Series2 Executive Commodore Wagon
Hi OzJD..I'm North Of Adelaide. I had a Holden HK Brougham 1968 model and a "Big Barge" HZ Statesman and both of those 307/308 motors didnt chew up as much as I'm going thru with this V6 problem at the moment, so in view of your VERY similar past problem (without the petrol leakage from the FPR) I'll price one and see if I can replace the thing anyway. I havent got much hair left at my age to pull out so if its under $100 i'll go for broke and try a replacement FPR.
I just returned from a 30 min. drive after clearing my error codes and have now rechecked them. Some interesting developments. Before clearing the codes i had a 21,31,34, & 51 and a suspected 61 (which isnt even listed as a VR V6 code).
I now have on a clean slate these codes...

21 - Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Voltage Too High

51 - MemCal Unit (PROM)..please tell me it's not as bad as it sounds!

and YEP..a definate CODE 61 WHICH ISNT EVEN LISTED.
I checked them all 3 times over and then 3 times over again...it is a code 61..anyone got any ideas what the heck that could be? I read the flashes correctly...6 flashes..a second pause and 1 flash...i sat in the car for 30 minutes making sure i got them right. 21,51 and 61.
She's running very smelly and rich fuelly at the exhaust (black exhaust soot) which could be the petrol smell too.

Suggestions on codes appreciated..especially this 61.
Thanks for the input already everyone too.
 

delcowizzid

on holiday
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
6,993
Reaction score
434
Points
83
Location
NZ
Members Ride
в∞ѕтεכ √&
ide be trying to find someone with the same model car and borrow there ecu to see if it helps.tps you can test with a multimeter should be 0.50volts at idle.the memcal unplugs from the ecu and may have come unplugged but i doubt it but worth pulling it out and putting it back in to make sure its well connected.my moneys probably on the ecu packing a mental its been happening a lot these last few weeks on here too.know anyone who you can borrow an ecu off to test.
 

delcowizzid

on holiday
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
6,993
Reaction score
434
Points
83
Location
NZ
Members Ride
в∞ѕтεכ √&
plus if the memcal was disconnected you should get the fan on on startup
 
Top