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Having a battle with Holden due lifters

KING46Calais V

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That statement above that you shouldn't be paying can work in your favour... so remember who said it and when...

Now, the great thing about ACL is the seller has the statutory warranty obligations. So you don't need to talk to Holden at all. The seller is legally responsible for selling you a reliable and durable product. They can't send you to the manufacturer for a remedy. They have to provide a remedy and if they choose can lodge a small claim against Holden to get their warranty costs back from the manufacturer :p

So maybe just hammer the dealer for your ACL statutory warranty repair since they are of the view you shouldn't have to pay...
Good advice.
 

Skylarking

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I don't think they actually write the oil appears to be past it's used by date.....I'm fairly confident in saying, they just put the car on the hoist and dump the oil....
Yeah, wouldn’t surprise me that they don’t document things very well. But my opinion is they should document all the issues they found when servicing the car, since one pays top rates at a dealer.
Where the biggest issue is, the private mechanic not stamping the booklet that comes with the car..
Yes, life would have been so much easier if Elwoods service book was stamped or if he had a receipt for the service itself.
As for verbal correspondance.....I seriously doubt that'd hold much weight.....If someone is shonky and has done something silly to void their warranty and are trying to claim against the manufacturer, of course they will stand up to a higher authority and make claims they were told this, that and the other to get away with it....I'm not insinuating anyone on here would do those things either.....But unfortunately higher authorities require written/photographic proof, as it holds the most weight, when it comes to disputes, rather than a he said, she said scenario.
Being “shonky” in court is never good...

Indisputable proof, like service receipt, obviously goes a long way to counter a dealer or manufacturers claim of owner abuse under ACL. However, the believability of the whiteness in verbal testimony can and does carry weight... After all the dealer or manufacturer can’t state with certainty that the owner didn’t have the oil changed by a 3rd part at the 30k interval, only that they have no record of it and the owner can’t provide it. So it comes down to who is more believable to the judge and who the judge catches telling lies or misrepresenting something, if anyone. If both parties are believable, it’s hard for the judge as proving a negative is difficult.

After all civil courts ain’t at a level of “beyond reasonable doubt“ but rather at the lower bar of “balance of probabilities“ which allows a judge to place more weight on verbal testimony..

It an uphill battle, always, but it’s not a forgone conclusion that one would loose. I think such a case could hinge on expert testimony but even that isn’t certainty... I think much depends on the judges bias (and the are biased)... but at $100 for a small claims case (ignoring expert testimony costs) and a day off work, I’d definitely present something to a tribunal since $3k or more seems at play.

And if @Elwood can get a reprint of a 30k 3rd party service receipt (or a stat dec or better still have the mechanic at court), then the argument that the lack of oil change being the cause would fly out the window.

Still, I’m curious if any member has even has some dealer write a comment about poor oil quality when they did a service (though I expect the answer to be no one has)...
 

immortality

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The thing is, how can you judge the oil on sight alone? Unless it is sludge like you really can't. Oil comes out black because that is what it is designed to do (carry the carbon deposits from within the crank case).
 

Skylarking

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The thing is, how can you judge the oil on sight alone? Unless it is sludge like you really can't. Oil comes out black because that is what it is designed to do (carry the carbon deposits from within the crank case).
You can’t fully judge oil on sight alone but you can extrapolate something via the colour. If the oil is still honey coloured you could form a view that it hasn’t circulated the engine as long as intended.

So in this case, if the oil was changed at 30k by a 3rd party as Elwood said, and then at 38k by Holden, I’d suspect the oil would have a slightly dark tinge to the honey colour and not be a very very dark black oil that has circulated the engine for 23,000kms. It should have been obvious to a mechanic the oil hasn't been in the engine it’s the full expected duration If Elwood changed it at 30k.

As such, I’d expect where the dealer doesn‘t have a 30k service on record, that a decent mechanic should comment that they were surprised the oil still looked golden at 23,000kms OR they should have commented on the oil being very very black and highlight the importance of changing the oil on schedule... So it may be that the lack of written or verbal comment by the dealer, when combined with their statement to Elwood that Holden should cover costs under warranty could be telling... Such could sway the judge to believe Elwood changed the oil at 30k as he stated.

I also find it odd to reconcile the dealers view that this fault should be covered by Holden (knowing the service history) and that of Holden who are now playing hardball...

So in this situation, it’s not just one thing, it’s a number of little things that build up a picture for the judge. It may be enough to lay some doubt in a judges mind that Holden are being reasonable in denying the owners statutory warranty claim. So the judge may form a view that Elwood wasn‘t being negligent or abusing the product as the judge believes he did change oil...
 

panhead

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It's does highlight the important to keep the paper trail history of your cars plus it can in future years add to the purchase desirability of the vehicle.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this but I keep a folder for each of my cars and along with the rego and insurance papers from year after year it contains the receipts for every service and purchase associated to the vehicle even the fuzzy dice for the revision mirror.

I also make sure my service books are stamped even when dealing with a independent mechanic.




.
 

3rspecB

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@Skylarking, that's great that you always post about ACL rights etc, but one should also advise that if the OP looses he could be up for a 10k + bill + extra $$ to fix his engine. I'm not sure how many of these cases you have been involved with but in the many that I am privy too, these type of cases don't go for 1 day. The engine will always have to be tore down by and independent party for analysis and that cost goes to the looser + the extra $$ involved with going to court on a number of occasions.

I'm going to say it here, something doesn't smell right if the OP can't get a reprint of the independent mechanic who supposedly did the 30k service as that will be indisputable proof. And if it was his mate up the road that did the service for him, good luck. Like I posted, the truth always come out.

We had a case where a car wasn't serviced for 30k, oil turned to sludge. Owner had receipts from independent mechanic listing all services done. Went to court, investigator found that the independent mechanic was a mate who typed up fake invoices.. Very costly loss.

I've also seen cases where the manufacturer has lost due to quality issues and or dealer error.

If the OP is being honest and upfront, then take it to court but something is NQR.
 
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stooge

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but in the many that I am privy too
the ones i have heard about with the services not being done properly the consumer lost.
like any tribunal/court case they are all case by case and the factors that determine the outcome are all different but i wouldnt go there with this one.
acl is great for the consumer but if say you buy a vacuum and never empty it and the motor burns out you cant claim it was faulty because you caused the failure by not maintaining it properly and the same goes for many products including motor vehicles.

you would need to somehow prove the lifters were faulty before the service was due and prove that the degraded oil was not the cause of the failure... good luck with that one ;)

if i was in elwoods position i would just use it as a reason to upgrade the cam/lifters etc.
 

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What was the end result financially?
Fkloads but fortunately it was a company car. Felt a bit bad as I left the company whilst it was being repaired.
 

tml678

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