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Help diagnosing “Service ESP” [Solved!]

kveldulv

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After 3 days at a Holden dealer - with them not having any idea, I’d appreciate any help to find a solution, as it’s driving me crazy!

Some background:

Coming out of lockdown (during which my ‘16 SSV-RR was rarely driven) I’m getting a lot of “Service ESP” messages on the dash. I also get “Service Brake Assist” (and other similar messages) and my gauges (speedo, tacho, etc.) sometimes “drop out”.

Click here for a short (15s) video showing the problems. (Filmed by my daughter whilst I’m driving - in case anyone is wondering!)

So, I’ve been researching. Battery and Injectors seem to come up frequently. Since the car still runs perfectly well, I don’t think it’s the injectors. I measured resistance, and all were ~12.3Ω. Perfectly in-spec.

Given I was on the original battery, and a prior service mentioned it was looking weak, I thought it’s definitely time to replace. So I did. Charged before fitting, and left the terminals disconnected overnight to clear any codes. Also checked as many fuses and ground wires as I could. (Car has done < 40K km’s and still looks brand new inside and out.)

Anyway, obviously the problem did not go away.

So, I’ve been playing around with GDS2 (still figuring it out), and first thing I did is check the codes, and sure enough there’s lots, but they’re all “Communication lost” with various modules. (Click here for Report.)

I’ve noticed that it always seems to start playing up when I”m braking, but not until warmed up. Had my son keep an eye on brake module parameters to try identify anything unusual whilst I drove. Turns out I can review the data, and here’s what it looks like:

SSV.png


I’ve noticed that when I start-up, Battery Voltage starts out 14V+. (Green line.) After a few minutes, it drops down to low 12’s. At the point circled “1” I get an error (brown line). I’ve noticed that after braking (gaps in blue line) I often get a voltage drop (2a, 2b, 2c). The error happens on the first brake application after the voltage has dropped to the 12’s. Although it doesn’t show, I’m wondering if I had a drop like in the earlier observations, but the system has become too low to operate normally and hence the error?

Sorry for the long post, but I’d welcome any thoughts/suggestions at this point!
 

dassaur

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After 3 days at a Holden dealer - with them not having any idea, I’d appreciate any help to find a solution, as it’s driving me crazy!

Some background:

Coming out of lockdown (during which my ‘16 SSV-RR was rarely driven) I’m getting a lot of “Service ESP” messages on the dash. I also get “Service Brake Assist” (and other similar messages) and my gauges (speedo, tacho, etc.) sometimes “drop out”.

Click here for a short (15s) video showing the problems. (Filmed by my daughter whilst I’m driving - in case anyone is wondering!)

So, I’ve been researching. Battery and Injectors seem to come up frequently. Since the car still runs perfectly well, I don’t think it’s the injectors. I measured resistance, and all were ~12.3Ω. Perfectly in-spec.

Given I was on the original battery, and a prior service mentioned it was looking weak, I thought it’s definitely time to replace. So I did. Charged before fitting, and left the terminals disconnected overnight to clear any codes. Also checked as many fuses and ground wires as I could. (Car has done < 40K km’s and still looks brand new inside and out.)

Anyway, obviously the problem did not go away.

So, I’ve been playing around with GDS2 (still figuring it out), and first thing I did is check the codes, and sure enough there’s lots, but they’re all “Communication lost” with various modules. (Click here for Report.)

I’ve noticed that it always seems to start playing up when I”m braking, but not until warmed up. Had my son keep an eye on brake module parameters to try identify anything unusual whilst I drove. Turns out I can review the data, and here’s what it looks like:

View attachment 230570

I’ve noticed that when I start-up, Battery Voltage starts out 14V+. (Green line.) After a few minutes, it drops down to low 12’s. At the point circled “1” I get an error (brown line). I’ve noticed that after braking (gaps in blue line) I often get a voltage drop (2a, 2b, 2c). The error happens on the first brake application after the voltage has dropped to the 12’s. Although it doesn’t show, I’m wondering if I had a drop like in the earlier observations, but the system has become too low to operate normally and hence the error?

Sorry for the long post, but I’d welcome any thoughts/suggestions at this point!
The communication lost codes have been in my experience related to battery voltage. But as you've said, you've done the battery so hard to say anything further.
How long have you been driving with the new one?
 

Skylarking

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Diagnose Dan (YouTube channel) actually when through one case where there was a burnt wire within the engine bay which was intermittently shorting cause communication faults between modules… something many others shops couldn’t sort out and all because the loom wasn't clipped back into place by a previous mechanic…

You also have lockdowns causing issues with batteries sulfation yet these sulfated batteries hold good voltage until under load and then struggle. But as you’ve replaced the battery it won’t be that… The other problem with lockdowns is that the car isn’t moved and rodents could have free run of the car and your garage… If a big mouse decides it likes the taste of some wires you could be in some serious trouble depending how long it’s been munching… So don’t discount a wire or two or large parts of many looms have been knawed and copper exposed. If it’s only a wire or two, such may cause a rather hard to find intermitant short when you brake and the loom moves a bit. I‘d look over all wiring looms and behind panels and such and if you find mouse droppings or exposed wires, leave it for an insurance company to sort out… I’d be cheaper and less hassles that way ;)

PS: don’t discount issue with your alternator as battery voltage with engine running should be 13 odd volts (initially 15 volts on engine start for short time while it goes into desulfation mode - yes smart alternators can do this…)
 

lmoengnr

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Thanks for sharing your data!
You may have a problem with your alternator, or alternator control(BCM).
It appears the alternators output voltage starts out ok, but then really drops off to a low level, too low.
Normal steady state output voltage should be around 13.8 volts.
Can you log BCM data when the fault occurs?
 

kveldulv

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Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it!

The communication lost codes have been in my experience related to battery voltage. But as you've said, you've done the battery so hard to say anything further. How long have you been driving with the new one?
I was really starting to lean towards a Battery Voltage issue. Perhaps the new battery is a dud?
Admittedly, I bought it mid-year-ish when thing were kind of opening up, but then we had a 1 week lockdown that ended up being a 3 month+ lockdown.

Diagnose Dan (YouTube channel) actually when through one case where there was a burnt wire within the engine bay which was intermittently shorting cause communication faults between modules…
That's another thought that crossed my mind. I did have a fuel pump replaced under warranty. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they messed something up!

The other problem with lockdowns is that the car isn’t moved and rodents could have free run of the car and your garage…
That's a horrifying thought. Fortunately, there's no sign of rodent activity everywhere I've looked so far.

You may have a problem with your alternator, or alternator control(BCM).
...
Can you log BCM data when the fault occurs?
I should probably get the battery and alternator tested. I would've thought they'd have done that at the dealer, but who knows.
I'll try capture BCM data. Thanks for the suggestions!
 

Skylarking

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Perhaps the new battery is a dud?
Admittedly, I bought it mid-year-ish when thing were kind of opening up, but then we had a 1 week lockdown that ended up being a 3 month+ lockdown.
A fully charged battery will see its voltage drop to levels that can start to see the battery begin to sulfate. That’s because a parked vehicle still sucks juice from the battery. Holden recommends the battery be charged at 6 week intervals in it’s not driven.

You may be able to get more than 6 weeks between cha the if you put the vehicle in “transport mode” which turns off lots of the electronics.

So do get the new battery load tested as it may be kaput… but also get the alternator tested as something seems off with the charging hardware if you are seeing 12v while driving.
 

kveldulv

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So, I went out for a 20min drive yesterday evening. Tried to log some BCM data, but there's many pages to choose from, so I'll have to experiment a bit. Selected something that had "power" in its name (can't remember exactly) as it sounded like it might be interesting.

Here's the only meaningful traces I got (everything else was just a flat line):
SSV2.png


So, what was interesting was the Battery Voltage (both in dash and logged [green]) stayed above 13.8 the whole time (except for the dip right at the beginning which is when I started it up I believe).

Battery charge state (purple) started out <80% - which is a little surprising to me. I'd fully charged it a week ago (I've been using a Victron smart charger on the battery to keep it charged over lockdown, etc.)

I can't remember what the yellow line was (at work and don't have the laptop with me).

Anyway, what was interesting was that overall, it was much more stable. I still had a few "Service ESP" and speedo drop-outs, but only under heavier braking.

Will keep trying and report my findings...
 

tommy_z

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Why not try a longer drive that includes some higher speed motorways? See if that helps as batteries will prefer that as opposed to slower and short distances.
Also not familiar with the Victron battery charger but just make sure that battery charger is also doing its job… I have a Ctek MXS5.0 and it is perfect for keeping my batteries charged and strong.
 

I Wish

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You will find that driving with your headlights on. The alternator will be charging most of the time as the lights are draining the battery. Mine is the green trace line. As you can see the BCM does some weird things due the charging algorithms. So I just throw on my Victron charger at least once a fortnight.
The short dips and spikes are on startup.
The other red trace line is the wife's Corolla. Obviously not a smart alternator as you can see it charging straight away after each start and then stop after a short period.

 

kveldulv

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Why not try a longer drive that includes some higher speed motorways?
...
Also not familiar with the Victron battery charger but just make sure that battery charger is also doing its job…
Interesting you should say that. In between the 1st and 2nd graphs, I did a longer drive, that included a stint on the highway.
So, maybe it was a factor in things appearing more stable by the 2nd run?
Since changing the battery, it had only done trips to/from work (~30mins). I think I'll go for a nice long drive this weekend.

The Victron chargers get mentioned here on occasion, and seem to be well regarded. I use it with other battieries, and it's definitely working.
You will find that driving with your headlights on. The alternator will be charging most of the time as the lights are draining the battery.
...
Mine is the green trace line. As you can see the BCM does some weird things due the charging algorithms.
Right, so that drive being an evening drive with headlights on would probably explain the higher voltage.
I drove to work this morning, and the voltage was back in the low 12's (similar to your trace). Was still way better than it has been. Only playing up under heavier, prolonged braking.
 
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