Help upgrading a 2010 VE Commodores stock sound sytem incl preamp outs for an amp+sub

[Wayno]

I have been using Just Commodores as a source for information ever since I had my second car, a VT Commodore, however it has been rare for me to have to actually post something on this forum to get the information I need, so first of all I would like to say a quick thanks to all the helpful and informative people on this forum that may have already helped me with something in the past.

I have been a proud owner of my VE SV6 for around 18 months now although other then the minor exhaust modification as well as the installation of HID's that I done within the first few days of owning the vehicle I have yet to perform any more modifications and even though there is many upgrades I would love to do to my vehicle ie rims, airhammer cai, extractors etc, mace insulators, tune, mod the dash LED's to blue and a remote engine start function, just for a bit of wang factor, these will things are just going to have to come in good time :supersad:

At the present point in time I am looking at upgrading the sound system. I have done a fair bit of looking into what I want to do and thats basically replacing the stock front door speakers with polk or another decent set of splits for the front, replacing the rear and disconnecting the centre. I would also love to run an amplifier and sub using the stock head unit and have read that this can be difficult to do however the forum threads I have been reading seemed a bit dated and I was hoping to get some updated information from hopefully someone that has done this before that could explain any obsticles I could encouter doing this by using either the line converter method from the rear speaker outs or getting someone to modify the head unit with a preamp output?

I also plan on using sound deadening material in the doors.

I aim to spend as close to a grand as possible so we'll use that as my budget.

In wanting to do all this I still have quite a few questions, and I thank everyone in advance that might be able help answer these questions with some detailed information for an .. advanced novice like myself

1. Can anyone linked me to detailed instructions or videos for correctly removing the pieces of interior, dash and the head unit without damaing anything and exactly what tools I will require? Type(s) of torx screwdriver, the correct name of a tool used to unclip car interior ect.

2. Recommendations for decent worthy speakers that wont require any more then a minor modification at most to fit? Any price information would be great.

3. Can someone please recommend any sound dampening material thats cheaper then Dynamat but very similar in quality (if there is any) or the best value what to purchase some would be? Also what type as to my understanding there are several types of Dynamat?

4. Is there any users on this forum capable of professionally modifying the head unit to have preamp outs to use with an amp that has overcome the issue of engine noise or some form of static coming through the speakers? If so information about exactly who I would need to speak to about getting this done in the logan area of QLD as well as a rough estimate of costs involved?

5. If question 4 ends up not being an option for whatever reason, information about a way of using a line level converter to connect to the amp without having the issue of static noise, information on its effectiveness and also a recommendation of a decent one for the job?

6. Information of someone that can professionally install a subwoofer flush and neatly into the center rear seat space so that it can still be moved if need be using mbf ect otherwise into the side of the boot?

7. If having the sub in the boot should I use sound dampening material on just the lid or other parts of the boot as well?

8. A recommendation of a decent amplifier and subwoofer that will fit into my budget?

I am sure I will end up having more questions however that is all I can think of at the moment.
I am just trying to do as much research as possible before I attempt to achieve what I want to myself as I have only installed a few sound systems in cars before and they were a whole lot easier then what this will be and I want to avoid any nasty obstacles that would only result in frustration and delays.

On a side note, if any of you out there have successfully modified their VE to start remotely with either a sequence on the stock key remote or an additional remote that costs under a few hundred bucks, please give me as much info as possible
I am not going to lie and say that I want to be able to do this so that I can warm up my car, I just want to f**k with people and pretend my car is getting stolen Even though I'd be adding a function not to serve an actual purpose i'd still gladly spend a bit of money to be able to do it!
(Please no comments regarding how legal it is or is not, as far as I'm concerned if the VF can have it then my VE can too.)

Thanks for any and all help you may be able to provide!

 

[Wayno]

If any of you viewing this could answer any of these questions it would be a great help! Cheers

 

[cheekycowboy]

i would but i know nothing of ve's
plus i aint smart enough to read all of that...

 

[Tasmaniak]

headhurtowie

1, Have a search, it's there. I can't link you to anything sorry...
2, Speaker size is 6".... 6.5" will fit sometimes without modifications
3, Had pretty good success in the past with FatMat...eBay it. There is a seller in Sydney selling it cheaper than everyone else... he is the importer.
4, Not that I'm aware of. Might be wrong though. Although typically, when using LOCs (Line Output Convertors) in a VE, there is no noise if done properly. Many different types of LOCs as well for you to consider, depends on your needs.

If going to the effort of Polk speakers or the ilk, definetly run them from an amp and consider the use of a higher quality LOC/Processor.

5, Keep your speaker wire length as short as possible between the LOC and headunit. Run shielded RCAs the rest of the distance.
6, In your area? Nope. Sorry.
7, The whole boot. Sound deadener is not designed for stopping rattles, its for keeping good sound in and bad sound out
8, You never really said your budget only about a grand, but what are you willing to spend money on and skimp on others?

Remote start in a VE? What do you want to know? I did one today.

No matter what system you get you will need....
A remote start system (Obviously)
A transponder bypass module (p/n DEI 556U)
A spare key (you may even be able to sweet talk the locksmith to just cloning the RFID chip in your key and putting it in a blank head. Much cheaper.)

Spare key and transponder will run you at minimum $250-$300. If it's a manual, then I always recommend Directed Electronics Remote starts. So, something with the brand name Viper, Python, Clifford or Avital.

 

[Wayno]

Thanks heaps for the reply Tasmaniak! The information you have provided is great! however I have some follow up questions:

Many different types of LOCs as well for you to consider, depends on your needs.

I am planning to get the best quality speakers I can without spending a fortune as I may amplify them also at a later date, for the front and rear.
A decent mono block amp capable of powering a decent performing 10" or 12" sub. I am looking into making a custom enclosure for the sub to either go between the rear seats or buying a second sub and angling each out from behind the tail lights, however for the meantime I am just going to buy a pre-built box for the sub)

If going to the effort of Polk speakers or the ilk, definetly run them from an amp and consider the use of a higher quality LOC/Processor.

The polk speakers I have heard good things about are these
Polk Audio PA DB651S 6 5" 2 WAY Shallow Mount CAR Speakers NEW Pair Warranty 047192112777 | eBay
do you think these would be decent? Anyone know where/if I can get them in Aus?

Due to the weak Australian dollar, importing these would be pretty expensive. Can you or anyone else recommend a few options that would be as good or better then these that I am able to purchase in Aus?

5, Keep your speaker wire length as short as possible between the LOC and headunit. Run shielded RCAs the rest of the distance.

Great tip! Will do. Where do you suggest installing it? Can you please recommend a few high quality LOC's/processor's options to suit?

7, The whole boot. Sound deadener is not designed for stopping rattles, its for keeping good sound in and bad sound out

Going to all this effort, may as well do the whole boot

8, You never really said your budget only about a grand, but what are you willing to spend money on and skimp on others?

I don't really want to skimp on anything unless the sub if I have to and then end up replacing it down the track, otherwise spend a little more if I see the worth.

Remote start in a VE? What do you want to know? I did one today.

Hahaha thats great! Perhaps you shouldnt have told me that because now I am more then likely going to try and get as much information out of you that your willing to give

No matter what system you get you will need....
A remote start system (Obviously)

What one did you use? Can you recommend one thats cheap (not cheap and nasty/might cause issues cheap) just one that I am not paying more for a whole lot of other functions I wont use.

A transponder bypass module (p/n DEI 556U)

This the one?
Directed Dei 556UW Universal Remote Start Starter Bypass Module Interface 556U | eBay

A spare key (you may even be able to sweet talk the locksmith to just cloning the RFID chip in your key and putting it in a blank head. Much cheaper.

Spare key and transponder will run you at minimum $250-$300. If it's a manual, then I always recommend Directed Electronics Remote starts. So, something with the brand name Viper, Python, Clifford or Avital.

I have a spare key :] What is the spare key needed for? does the key not function like normal once modified or something? would I have to carry both keys on me? transponder seems pretty cheap am I looking at the right thing? know where I can get the one you mentioned in Aus? My VE is an Auto, what difference does that make? Is it because I would need to get one that has a failsafe incase the car is in gear? or something else too?

And my last question (for this post that is ) is installing a remote start in a VE a difficult process?

Sorry for asking so many questions and thank you so much in advance for going into as much detail as possible!

 

[Tasmaniak]

Your going to be disappointed if you replace your door speakers without amplifying them. I've suggested it many times... alpine make a great little 5 channel that can run a single sub nicely and all four doors. Ryda.com.au sell it for 350ish.

There is an online shop selling polka splits and two ways for good prices, don't remember their name sorry. Someone here can chime in.

JL Audio Cleansweep is a great unit which tunes itself, Rockford fosgate 3sixty gets a good mention. Someone on here recently used a unit that was cheaper than those two and it worked well after they got their signal from the right spot. If using a larger one like these, under the seat is usually my option.

Try a JL Audio sub or polka sub for clarity. You can use them in a prefab box but make it a decent one out of 18mm or thicker mdf.

I'm a directed dealer, so I won't use any other remote start other than viper myself. That being said, here in OZ they are the best. A lot of import units from China but I strongly disagree with their use in a late model car. There is a unit out there not imported into oz by directed but it's a single button remote for starting only.

Yes, that's the bypass unit. The second key is dismantled and so you are just left with the chassis holding the rfid chip and it's then inserted inside the 556u. This then has a wire loop wrapped around the ignition barrel and is activated only when you remote start... it send the edge up the wire around the loop and the car thinks the key is in the barrel and will allow it too start.

If your confident wiring then the remote start in a ve is actually really simple as nearly everything is available at the bcm. I can give you my cheat sheet I made for it... it's easier than the previous commodores.

 

[numeric]

try this its the only one I know for polk Polk Audio : Elite Electronics, Welcome to our Online Store

 

[Tasmaniak]

I think that's one I'm thinking of.

 

[Wayno]

Your going to be disappointed if you replace your door speakers without amplifying them. I've suggested it many times... alpine make a great little 5 channel that can run a single sub nicely and all four doors. Ryda.com.au sell it for 350ish.

I think I will just have wait a little longer and increase my budget to account for the Cleansweep and extra costs to get a decent 5 channel amp.

JL Audio Cleansweep is a great unit which tunes itself, Rockford fosgate 3sixty gets a good mention. Someone on here recently used a unit that was cheaper than those two and it worked well after they got their signal from the right spot. If using a larger one like these, under the seat is usually my option.

Great, now after looking into these two LOC's, I am not willing to risk something cheaper as they all now seem inadequate in some way compared to the Cleansweep.. Damn it!

Try a JL Audio sub or polka sub for clarity. You can use them in a prefab box but make it a decent one out of 18mm or thicker mdf.

Will do.

I'm a directed dealer, so I won't use any other remote start other than viper myself. That being said, here in OZ they are the best. A lot of import units from China but I strongly disagree with their use in a late model car. There is a unit out there not imported into oz by directed but it's a single button remote for starting only.

Well Viper it is! Is there any reason I won't be able to use this in conjunction with that immobiliser bypass?
Viper 4103XV Vehicle Remote Start with Keyless Entry System
If that and the 556u is the main things I require, and you are willing to help me out if I get stuck by answering my questions (some of them may be silly questions mind you) then I am going to tackle this task myself!

Yes, that's the bypass unit. The second key is dismantled and so you are just left with the chassis holding the rfid chip and it's then inserted inside the 556u. This then has a wire loop wrapped around the ignition barrel and is activated only when you remote start... it send the edge up the wire around the loop and the car thinks the key is in the barrel and will allow it too start.

I see! I have seen pictures of how that ring works, quote a nifty little device.

If your confident wiring then the remote start in a ve is actually really simple as nearly everything is available at the bcm. I can give you my cheat sheet I made for it... it's easier than the previous commodores.

I am confident with the wiring part, the main things I think I may have issues with is disassembling the interior to get to the wiring I need and making sense of wiring diagrams!
While on the topic of wiring, what gauge is the wiring I will be working with? is it 14/16? I plan on getting some t taps to tap into the relevant wires to make installation easier.
Also,I would probably need a multimeter, or can I do the install without it?

Oh and yes I would absolutely love a copy of your cheat sheet please, [email protected] is my email.

I am going to put a pause on the audio upgrade for the time being and focus on this for now.

This is my shopping cart so far:
Viper 4103XV Vehicle Remote Start with Keyless Entry System
Directed 556U (dei-556u) Universal Remote Start Immobilizer
Pull the hard to reach wires easily and effectively
Xscorpion DPFR6 Heavy Duty Door Panel Fastener + Remover
Xscorpion TT1614B 16/14 Gauge T-Taps Adapter Blue (50 Pieces)
Xscorpion MD250NFB 16/14 Gauge Fully Insulated Quick Disconnect

Is there anything else I will need? Those 'Quick Disconnect Connectors' (last link) are the correct ones to match those t taps (second last link) right? (sorry, never used t taps before)
Everything listed above will cost around $200 US total, having it priority mailed to me. Is there a shop in Australia that I can just walk in and buy the door panel remover, wire threading tool, t taps and quick disconnect connectors all in the same shop, for the same price or less then off this site? (keeping in mind that taking these 4 items out of my order only reduced the total shipping cost by roughly $10)

Sorry again for all the questions.

Thanks for all your help and info so far mate, really appreciate it!

 

[Tasmaniak]

I think I will just have wait a little longer and increase my budget to account for the Cleansweep and extra costs to get a decent 5 channel amp.


Great, now after looking into these two LOC's, I am not willing to risk something cheaper as they all now seem inadequate in some way compared to the Cleansweep.. Damn it!

It's worth the wait and means you only do it once.

Well Viper it is! Is there any reason I won't be able to use this in conjunction with that immobiliser bypass?
Viper 4103XV Vehicle Remote Start with Keyless Entry System
If that and the 556u is the main things I require, and you are willing to help me out if I get stuck by answering my questions (some of them may be silly questions mind you) then I am going to tackle this task myself!

Not too sure what your asking there. Any remote start you fit into a VE will require that immob bypass. Period. I'm willing to help you for sure but I'm not accepting responsibility for anything that goes wrong.

I see! I have seen pictures of how that ring works, quote a nifty little device.

Yes it works well... somewhat crude but very effective.

I am confident with the wiring part, the main things I think I may have issues with is disassembling the interior to get to the wiring I need and making sense of wiring diagrams!
While on the topic of wiring, what gauge is the wiring I will be working with? is it 14/16? I plan on getting some t taps to tap into the relevant wires to make installation easier.
Also,I would probably need a multimeter, or can I do the install without it?

Oh and yes I would absolutely love a copy of your cheat sheet please, [email protected] is my email.

I am going to put a pause on the audio upgrade for the time being and focus on this for now.

T-Taps and Scotch-Locks are a big no no for remote starts when dealing directly with the BCM.... in my world, they are just a big no no anyway but definetly not to be used on remote starts. For instance, on a mercedes, if the one of the two canbus wires t-tap fails... and you attempt to remote start, the vehicle will see this as an attempt to steal the vehicle. By the third failed attempt (which is one push of the button as it will attempt three times) the Merc will lock itself down and your calling a tow truck to send it off to the dealership to unlock the car.

I can only help you if your soldering. Its not hard at all.
I will post my wiring guide up here so it's available for anyone to use.... meant to do it a long time ago.

You will need a multimeter to verify my wiring.

This is my shopping cart so far:
Viper 4103XV Vehicle Remote Start with Keyless Entry System
Directed 556U (dei-556u) Universal Remote Start Immobilizer
Pull the hard to reach wires easily and effectively
Xscorpion DPFR6 Heavy Duty Door Panel Fastener + Remover
Xscorpion TT1614B 16/14 Gauge T-Taps Adapter Blue (50 Pieces)
Xscorpion MD250NFB 16/14 Gauge Fully Insulated Quick Disconnect

Is there anything else I will need? Those 'Quick Disconnect Connectors' (last link) are the correct ones to match those t taps (second last link) right? (sorry, never used t taps before)
Everything listed above will cost around $200 US total, having it priority mailed to me. Is there a shop in Australia that I can just walk in and buy the door panel remover, wire threading tool, t taps and quick disconnect connectors all in the same shop, for the same price or less then off this site? (keeping in mind that taking these 4 items out of my order only reduced the total shipping cost by roughly $10)

As I stated above, you won't be using t-taps so don't worry about them. Going from memory, here is a list of items including tools required to do the job (hardly any tools)

Phillips Head screwdriver
Side cutters
Wire Strippers (You may or may not need these. I strip wire using only my side cutters but some people have trouble doing it.)
Soldering iron (about 20-30Watt or gas)
Small roll of solder (I tend to prefer 1mm solder.)
Good quality electrical tape (I use Nitto, another good brand is Selleys, don't use anything that has no brand on the inside of the roll is my rule)
1x 9.6K resistor 1/2watt
1x 6.3K resistor 1/2watt
2x 1N5404 Diodes (if you want it to illuminate your indicators instead of park lights when it's runnings... you will need 6 of these)
SPDT Automotive Relay and Wiring socket
556U Immobilizer bypass
Viper remote start (try this...Amazon.com: Python 4203P Responder 1 Remote Start System: Explore similar items It keeps you using your holden key for doors and boot and just adds one extra button for remote start.... unless you want an alarm as well. But thats a whole other discussion.)