HELP Vp wont start, starter motor trouble

[duffysmashrepairs]

ok so im pretty sure i know what the problem is, but not how to rectify it

3.8 lt VP calais

heres what happens

key is turned,
starter relay closes circuit to solenoid,
solenoid fires,
pinion gear on starter motor fires out, and makes contact with the flywheel

and then jams up

the starter motor in this car was replaced, because the "mechanic" who looked at it diagnosed than as the problem.

both old and new starters work on bench test (jumper leads and a battery)


while the starters are being bolted up, using the 2 vertical bolts, a gap slowly appears at the bottom of the starter, between the starter, and the housing around the flywheel. when fully tightened, the gap measures about half an inch.

at first i thought there may be a problem with amps, and the starter not getting enough power. three new batterys failed to make a difference, as did cleaning the metal that earths the starter, and the contact that provides it with power.

even with jumper leads directly connected to starter, the same problem occurs (bypassing the motors earth)

my theory is that, at some point the starter has been hit from underneath, or over many start cycles, and that has bent the starter up somewhat, causing the gap at the bottom, and causing the pinion gear to misalign with the flywheel. the only problem is, there is no gap at the top, and the bolts appear to go into cast, which i really dont want to hit with a hammer.

after looking at my vn commodore (3.8 lt executive) it has another bolt, that this vp does not have

as well as the two vertical bolts, it has a single horizontal bolt, that holds the bottom of the starter to the housing around the flywheel.

if this vp had the same bolt, i dont think there would be a problem, but im not about to drill holes and tap threads.

anyone have any suggestions? the owner of this car wishes to burn it...

 

[Krisp]

what series vp is it, maybe it has the wrong starter motor head on it . whats the brand of starter motor bosch or delco remy? and also is it shimmed correctly? there was ever only two mounting bolts that screw into the block on the vn to vr v6 series

 

[jetboy]

+2 sounds like the wrong starter to me too , count the cogs on the gears make sure they're the same , and only ever 2 bolts , dont know how the hell you ended up with a third that would be interesting to see any pics ???

 

[duffysmashrepairs]

i can get some pics. the third horizontal bolt is in my vn, it starts fine, never had a problem, but never ran it into the ground either.

the vp is series II i think, i'll have to check. the starter doesnt look like others i've seen, the others seem to have some sort of gaurd over the gear, this looks like an oversized atv starter motor, no gaurd on the gears. but both starters are exactly the same. its been a while since i looked at this car, its just sitting in his yard.

im fairly sure the starter motor that came out of the car, was the orignal starter motor. it still worked fine, and it was starting the car just fine, but when the car stopped starting, the "mechanic" said the starter was f***d, and replaced it, only to give it back to him and have it stop working a day later. my theory is he changed the motor, and somehow bent it so the gears are aligned, when he realised it wouldnt turn over, but the force of the starter motor has bent it back to where it was.

i'll take some photos of the starter, and post them soon

 

[Krisp]

on a worse note the bastard could be seized. try turning the car over by hand. if it does rotate charge the battery . starter motors take a fair bit to die, its more than likely the solinoid. on some of the bastards that had a shim under the mounting point. on the side of the starter if it doesnt say no shim then you will need to shim it