Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Here's a new one... (VE Issue)

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by CSP, Feb 8, 2008.

Page 2 of 3
  1. Mar 28, 2008 #21
    simon.w

    simon.w New Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV
    Hey Cous'n slow poker...... I would like to bring your attention to a quote that you left on my thread:

    "I have had a couple of minor problems over the years with a couple of different Holdens but that's what warranties are for. I make sure my service department fixes stuff that needs fixing. I don't whinge and cry on a public forum about it!"

    WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING ON THIS PARTICULAR THREAD IF NOT WHINGING ON A PUBLIC FORUM"

    ummmm.... HYPOCRITE!

    PS - re your continual comments regarding the Clubsport having 37kw more than the L98 - keep dreaming.

    FACT: HSV (and the USA) do not measure their power under the same stringent measures as the European standards by which Holden rate their output.

    FACT: Holden have put a conservative output on the L98, HSV have put an over enthusiastic measure on the LS2 - Put a Clubsport and an SS under the same dyno test, (which both wheels and motor did) and you will find that the SS comes in the mid 290's kw, and the HSV around 304.

    Here's the real good bit.... the L98 is a new technology engine... far superior heads... add a CAI, Exhaust and Tune... and you're running 340kw.

    LS2... yes it WAS regarded as the high performance and stronger engine.... however, it is at the end of it's life (which is why HSV are going for the 7l engine)... At a "claimed 307kw has every last ounce of power squeezed out of it already.

    Ask any reputable tuner such as KPM motorsports, capa, Ls1, D&T... they all say the same story. In fact... I had a mechanic from Catapillar racing tell me exactly the same thing. "The L98 is a newer engine.. heaps more potential... wild heads... easy to get power out of it"

    Here's a little quote from a review on carpoint.com.au: "As a side note, on one of the mountain runs I did, I was joined by a VE Clubsport. Much to our amazement, the SS had no problems keeping with the Clubby through the bends."

    Here's the real fun bit.... do you know that HSV actually protested before the release of the VE to Holden that they made the SSV too good, and that they would struggle to justify the extra expense of a Clubsport, or to make it look more aggressive... which is why they went for those God-awful tail lights with the tacked on top caps on the rear quarter (is it just me.... or do they remind you of the days when idiots used to put LH or LX Torana tailights into the back of Volkswagen Beetles????"

    How is your beetle these days Cous? Still having trouble scrubbing tyres with that reverse camber?

    ahhhhhhhh this is fun fishing in this pond!..ohh... wait... I feel a nibble.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2008
    simon.w, Mar 28, 2008
    #21
  2. Mar 28, 2008 #22
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    lol.... Jealous much?

    From the factory... LS2 = 307kw (in a few days it will be a standard 317kw LS3 for all HSVs). L98 = only 270kw. These figures are all flywheel based and don't mean a great deal. RWKW and torque is what matters most.

    HSV brakes **** all over SS brakes and actually stop the car quicker than a Lambo Murchilago from the same speed.

    I don't whinge about my issues, I share my experiences and get them fixed. You are clearly a whinger.

    As for deliberately BAITING people, on more than one occasion now I might add, don't expect to be a member of JC for too long.

    FACT: you have an inferior car to me and are jealous - at least that's how it comes across.
    FACT: you whinge about your car's problems here rather than insisting your dealer get it fixed under warranty.
    FACT: 307 - 270 = 37. It is not a dream, it's basic maths.
    FACT: Dual 3 inch exhaust + CAI + tune = 280 rwkw on a VE Clubsport R8 but only around 250 - 260 rwkw on an L98 powered VE SS (or SSV). Any reputable tuner will tell you that.
     
    CSP, Mar 28, 2008
    #22
  3. Mar 28, 2008 #23
    f1tzy

    f1tzy New Member

    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Location:
    Brissy
    Members Ride:
    FG XR6T Ute manual
    Did you read that article in motor mag (i think it was)? They put the cars on the dyno to find out their rwkw and then used some equasion to figure out the flywheel kw. the difference between the two SSV's they tested and the two HSV's they tested was alot less than the advertised fwkw. And to make sure it was fair they had an auto and a manual of each car.
     
    f1tzy, Mar 28, 2008
    #23
  4. Mar 28, 2008 #24
    f1tzy

    f1tzy New Member

    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Location:
    Brissy
    Members Ride:
    FG XR6T Ute manual
    Do you have figures for that?
     
    f1tzy, Mar 28, 2008
    #24
  5. Mar 28, 2008 #25
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    That's never going to be an accurate comparisson because of the variables. Tyres, tyre pressures, AFR, diff, no two engine tunes are identical even on identical cars. Hell, even the wider wheels on the HSV translates to a greater power loss from the flywheel to the wheels.

    The only ACCURATE way of determining power at the flywheel (i.e. the engine output) is to set it up on an engine dyno. A chassis dyno will never give you an accurate engine output figure. All that test Motor Magazine did was flashy journalism for people who need to get a clue :D

    Tested by Motor Magazine. The E-Series HSV GTS they tested out stopped a Lamborghini Gallardo. The E-Series Clubsport R8 has identical breaks, but it does have different rims, tyres and suspesnsion so may not equal the GTS in stopping power but there would be milimetres in it. The SS or SSV on the other hand wouldn't come close in stopping power.
     
    CSP, Mar 28, 2008
    #25
  6. Mar 28, 2008 #26
    f1tzy

    f1tzy New Member

    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Location:
    Brissy
    Members Ride:
    FG XR6T Ute manual
    Than i want those brakes :D. My brakes get spongy lol. Thats true about an engine dyno is the only accurate way of giving a flywheel figure but the point i was attempting to make but i evidently left out was that at the wheels the LS2 and L98 are fairly close in power
     
    f1tzy, Mar 28, 2008
    #26
  7. Mar 28, 2008 #27
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    Hell yes! I went from a VX Commodore S to a VE Calais to a VE Clubsport R8... Talk about waking me up to what braking should be. HSV have got it spot on! :thumbsup:

    I'd have to agree with that...
     
    CSP, Mar 28, 2008
    #27
  8. Mar 28, 2008 #28
    f1tzy

    f1tzy New Member

    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Location:
    Brissy
    Members Ride:
    FG XR6T Ute manual
    lol. I went from a kf laser to my vz ute and that was a MASSIVE step up even with its ordinary brakes lol
     
    f1tzy, Mar 28, 2008
    #28
  9. Mar 31, 2008 #29
    simon.w

    simon.w New Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV
    I am definately not jealous (well..actually... that's not quite true....I am jealous of your brakes).

    I could quite easily have afforded a Clubsport.... But I have never been a fan of the massive plastic after-thought look. Each to their own.

    My decision was based purely on which car I preferred... I did my homework and decided that if I buy an optioned-up SSV... then spend the same money as I would have getting it to a Clubsport... I'll end up with a much faster, better looking (in my opinion) car.

    I must admit though.... if the 6.2 LS3 was available at the time... it may have been a different story.
     
    simon.w, Mar 31, 2008
    #29
  10. Mar 31, 2008 #30
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    I'm looking at upgrading to a LS3 GTS now that they've been confirmed. The LS3 has a LOT more potential than an LS2.

    Turns out the Clubby may be the car I have for the least amount of time.

    On the whole body kit thing, I am a fan of the more agressive styling. Plus the other thing about HSVs that I find appealing is that they aren't like arse holes (everyone seems to have an SS or SSV) AND they're easily identified as HSVs. Hard to tell an SV6/SS/SSV apart on the road.

    As for the cost argument, I agree totally but cost isn't an issue for me...
     
    CSP, Mar 31, 2008
    #30
  11. Mar 31, 2008 #31
    simon.w

    simon.w New Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV

    Do you think it may be because the LS2 is an older generation engine.... that is at the end of it's life? (like we've been saying all along?)

    Tend to agree with your comments on the SV6/SS/SSV - was one of the reasons why i went for the track stripes... which sort of contradicts my earlier comments on the plastic.. Oh who knows...
     
    simon.w, Mar 31, 2008
    #31
  12. Mar 31, 2008 #32
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    What does end of life have to with it? The LS2 is still a bloody good engine - always has been. But like everything, there will always be better. If the L98 was a better engine than the LS2, HSV would have used it... FACT is, for the L98 to produce the same (or better) power as the LS2, it has to be significantly modified. The MAIN reason the LS2 is no longer being used is due to it no longer complying with emissions laws. Plus it's reached it's peak power development potential. Although I already match the new LS3 in it's factory form with my cat back, dual 3 inch exhaust. 10kw isn't going to be noticable but the LS3 is still a better engine. As long as they make sure it's DoD enabled.

    Comes back to the age old argument, if you're continually waiting for the "best" of anything before buying, you'll never end up buying anything. Someone, somewhere is always developing the next latest and greatest.
     
    CSP, Mar 31, 2008
    #32
  13. Mar 31, 2008 #33
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    Let's just both be happy we made the right individual decision for US :D

    I'm happy with what will end up being 270-280 rwkw after the CAI and tune... If I go for a cam, I'll get them to tune it for 307 rwkw and get a sticker "rwkw" made up for under the 307 on the back :D hehehe

    But fark me! A cam is worth it just for the sound it make :thumsup:
    YouTube - Russo HSV GTS Cam-Only
    mmmmmmm.... lumpy!
     
    CSP, Mar 31, 2008
    #33
  14. Mar 31, 2008 #34
    simon.w

    simon.w New Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV
    Nahh... HSV were contracted to use the LS2. They had to work their ring off to get the 307 out of it so that it gave them enough life until the LS3 was ready.

    It's a leap-frog thing...L98 is newer than LS2... so it had a few newer-tech things.... but the LS3 will have all the new stuff of the L98.. plus the heavy-duty 6 bolt main of the LS2 plus of course the bigger cubes.

    fact is... we're both happy with out cars... we should save our energy for picking on fords!
     
    simon.w, Mar 31, 2008
    #34
  15. Mar 31, 2008 #35
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    Yeah and then to only give us 317 with the first installment of the LS3 is a bit of a joke.

    Personally, a so called "premium" brand such as HSV would be far better off with less frequent but much more substantial changes, much like how Mercedes do things.
     
    CSP, Mar 31, 2008
    #35
  16. Mar 31, 2008 #36
    simon.w

    simon.w New Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV
    I guess they feel they have to so that they stay competitive against the SS's etc... I mean... look at our argument re the two... how many more sales would they have scored if they had an LS3 from the start. Or better still.. one that puts out 350kw.

    I just stopped at a Mazda dealership I was driving past... out of curiosity... not that I could go back to a 4cyl engine.... but maaaaann... the new mazda 6 is still put together so damned well. Everything just feels amazing... small tollerances, good tactile feel on controls.

    I wish I could by a holden, that was built like that. Oh... and a v8 that spins freely to 7200rpm would be nice too.
     
    simon.w, Mar 31, 2008
    #36
  17. Mar 31, 2008 #37
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    cubes over revs mate ;) hehe

    As for tollerances and build quality... Go sit in a VZ or anything earlier after driving around in a VE :D
     
    CSP, Mar 31, 2008
    #37
  18. Mar 31, 2008 #38
    simon.w

    simon.w New Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV
    funny you should say that... got a lift back from the dealer in a VZ SV6... bucket of bolts... front left wheel bearing sounded like the diff in a Falcon taxi with two million km on the clock.

    The fit and finish on the VE is not even close to the Mazda. The paint on my 6 was totally blemish free... even after 80,000km and neary 5 years.

    My VE was delivered with about 10 dust specks in the paint that jump out at me when I wash the car.
     
    simon.w, Mar 31, 2008
    #38
  19. Mar 31, 2008 #39
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    Not to mention ORANGE PEAL!!! :bang:

    THAT should be something they can fix...

    I want to the paint job Ferraris get - anyone seen the Megafactories Ferrari Factory on Discovery Channel? :bow:
     
    CSP, Mar 31, 2008
    #39
  20. Apr 3, 2008 #40
    CSP

    CSP Banned

    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    my car
    OK... So a few weeks ago after I thought the clicking noises when turning the wheel was fixed by Holden under warranty, until I'm manouvering in a car park last weekend and notice they've come back. Not as loud as before but still noticable and annoying.

    The car was booked to get one of the flip keys replaced (was damaged when I picked it up so a warranty deal but not cause it was faulty - someone at Holden broke it before they sold it!) today so I mentioned the steering issue was back when I dropped it off. I had made all the arrangements this week with Rob at Gerald Slaven who's a champion and always makes dealing with them a pleasure.

    He wasn't there today. Anyhow, I get a call saying it's ready and go to pick it up. "No fault found" with the steering. I took the foreman with me and before we left the car park I had pointed it out to him. Not only did they not pick it up but 10km were added to the odometer. I was ****ed off about this since none of the work required a test drive. When I started querying this, the new Service Manager (Lou Navmovski) came out and wanted the story. He totally agreed with me that 10km test driving wasn't acceptable. Apparently one of the techs couldn't find it, brought it back, grabbed another tech and went out again to try and find the noise I was talking about together. A noise I can point out without leaving the car park! At least I got a free nut and bolt check over the whole front end I guess :whistling

    OK so the Service Manager is on my side and getting up the adviser (I won't mention who it was, but it wasn't Rob) and the techs that drove it. Then he comes with me to the parking lot and I point it out to him. He agrees straight away that it's there (once I point it out) and really only an annoyance, which it is. Doesn't affect the steering or safety or anything. I tell him they replaced the intermediary shaft last time and he just says, "mate I'm not going to muck around, I'll just replace the whole steering column, will pull this one out and give you a new one". Talk about the best outcome. The change of management in Service, Spares, etc at Gerald Slaven has paid off for customers. As for the 10km the dick heads from the workshop put on my car, I get a free intermediate service (oil and filter and general check) as a result of that one!

    So if anyone has the similar annoying little "ticking/clicking" noises in their steering column, note that Gerald Slaven Holden in Belconnen ACT will replace the steering column under warranty to resolve this issue. They can't get the new column until after the 16th April (not in stock) so I will report back once the job's done too.
     
    CSP, Apr 3, 2008
    #40
Page 2 of 3

Share This Page