Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

High pressure air sound on drivers side of motor

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by CRCinAU, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    Good tips from all. I'll give them a try in the daylight and see what it rurns up... I'm really puzzled by this - as you can see, the engine runs fine - so I'm not sure where the issue is. I really would have thought a head gasket (if in fact this motor has one) would have more symptoms..

    I'm also trying to aquire a compression tester to run through the three cylinders on the drivers side to see if I can see anything abnormal there too....
     
  2. VPRob

    VPRob Active Member

    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Location:
    nowra, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VP executive sedan V6
    you can isolate the source of the noise more effectively by using a 1 metre (approx) length of garden hose like a stethoscpe. One end in your ear and the other pointed towards the motor. You'll be surprised how it will isolate and localise a noise source. It may help you diagnose the problem. To me it sounds like very noisey tappets and maybe a valve not seating properly giving it a chugging quality when revved..... but I have enough trouble with diagnosis when the engine is right in front of me so I won't be hurt if you laugh that off. Good luck with it and keep us posted.
    Oh, by the way, I am not surprised at the price your mechanic gave for replacing the engine. A lot of that is his time plus probably making a bit on the motor itself. If you can source a motor yourself and do the change-over yourself you'll save most of that cost but it depends on your level of know-how, what value you put on your time, and then you will spend extra on plugs, oil and a host of other "little things" you might decide to spend time and money on before you put the replacement into your engine bay.
     
  3. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    Interestingly, I used a bit of heater hose I had today and seemed to isolate the area the noise is coming from. I got it to the point that I could feel the air pressure coming down the hose - but I can't see exactly where it is coming from.

    With the help of the good old gregory's, I believe its coming from around the circled area (somewhere).
    IMG_20130611_135456.jpg

    I grabbed the good old smart phone and jammed it down any gap I could get it - and found this...
    IMG_20130611_142615.jpg
    IMG_20130611_142703.jpg
    IMG_20130611_143003.jpg

    Sticking my hand down there with the engine running and there is certainly bursts of air coming out of this thing...

    Looking at the diagrams in The Book, is this the head gasket? Something else?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  4. tavrin

    tavrin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VS Executive S2 L67
    That bit is indeed the head gasket... :(
     
  5. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    In a word. Poo.

    So, this makes me wonder... What is the best way forward for this? eBay shows second hand motors for ~$400-$500 - plus some places that are almost local will do fitting etc... I just talked to the guy advertising it on eBay.... ~$450 for the motor and $550 for fitting, then $50 for oil, filters, coolant etc - ie total $1050...

    At 445000km, is it worth repairing this by replacing the head gasket - and probably the inlet manifold gaskets etc at the same time? Is it better off getting a lower km motor and getting that fitted?

    Either way, financially I'm screwed at the moment - so looking at the best value fix I can get....
     
  6. tavrin

    tavrin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VS Executive S2 L67
    Woah 445,000km!!! im extremely impressed.
    My Ecotec is already blowing smoke on startup at 182,000.


    You can replace the gaskets, but you're looking at roughly:
    + $100 for LIM gaskets (Get Mace's metal ones)
    + $250ish for headgaskets
    + $30 bucks in coolant

    However, with those sort of km's and with 2nd hand low km engines going for ~$500 bucks for the lot (Ecu, bcm, gearbox, loom, and engine); would it really be worth it?
    You could easily sell your old motor for $150 and all the bits and pieces from the new 2nd hand engine and only be out of pocket for a few hundred.
     
  7. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    Yeah - its a changeover service - so he takes the old motor... but its $1050 fitted with coolant / oil etc. He says the engines have between 150,000-180,000km on them and come with a 3 month warranty...

    I also agree that 445,000km is a good run... A lot of that has been hard work too - towing a horse + horse float... sometimes as far as SA...

    The deal is motor only - ie no gearbox / ecu etc etc... but from what I understand that isn't needed?
     
  8. tavrin

    tavrin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VS Executive S2 L67
    Yeah you can just buy and swap the engine; but there are usually some really cheap bargains on ebay where people sell the lot for $500 just because they want to do a v8 conversion instead.
    These bargains give you the option to resell some of the parts on ebay for a bit of $ to make up the cost of the engine replacement.
     
  9. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    Yeah - I hear you on that one.... Sadly though I don't have enough know-how to do this job myself... I can do basic stuff - water pumps, oil, radiator, plugs, etc etc - but things like this are getting beyond what I can do in both tools, knowledge and experience...
     
  10. tavrin

    tavrin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    VS Executive S2 L67
    Yeah if you want to save yourself the hassle of having to stuff around with transporting a 2nd hand engine and an engine swap then thats definitely the better choice.
    2nd hand motors are a bit of hit and miss really; so if your mechanic is going to give you a 3 months warranty on it, then for 1050 that isn't a bad price at all.
     
  11. spud_22

    spud_22 Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Location:
    Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VFII SS-V Wagon, VS UTE, 96 VS Senator
    When you change the head gasket you have to change the inlet manifold aswell. I would be leaning towards the new engine because it has warranty. Who knows what could pack up next after you change the head and inlet manifold gaskets.
     
  12. Brett_jjj

    Brett_jjj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,805
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Location:
    Tamworth NSW
    Members Ride:
    vs commodore

    Ive seen plently if these V6 engines reach 450,000 km or more and still not blow any smoke. My VSV6 has got over 200,000 km on it now since it was reconditioned, and its still got compression and oil pressure readings that are on par with a engine thats done half the km... Its all in how theyre looked after, they need regular engine oil and filter changes and regular coolant changes etc, and another thing that makes a huge difference to engine longevity is letting the engine pretty much idle along until its fully reached operating temperature before giving it a gutfull and reving it hard or putting it under heavy load. If you follow these things it will greatly increase the life of the engine.


    CRCinAU- If your gonna buy another second hand engine, make sure you either hear it running first or buy one with warranty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  13. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    Yeah - I'm like driving miss daisy - although the Mrs tows her horses around all the time with it... It gets services (new oil, oil filter) every 10,000km (+/- 800). New air filter every second service.

    It has a three month warranty... I've just got to confirm that they are expecting to put LPG on the new engine as well.... Even though its a factory fitted LPG, I want to make sure they are aware that the LPG system stays...
     
  14. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    I'm just wondering... With the replacement motors.... Is there such a thing as modifications that would be done for a factory LPG motor? Are all the VR compatible engines able to run LPG without modification?

    As the car has a factory LPG system fitted, it should be very easy to connect to another motor - but I'm wondering about valve seats etc etc for LPG...
     
  15. Wozza

    Wozza Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Members Ride:
    VR_GS commodore
    Na as far as I know the motors are all the same...besides the valve seat issue was only on pre unleaded cars.....
     
  16. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    Ok, well. I've got the car back after getting a changeover engine installed. It runs nicely now - however I'm having some issues with overheating. I can leave it idle for ages and the temp doesn't increase too much - I can even drive it around the local streets, but whenever I hit 80kph+ the temp climbs to between 1/2 and 3/4... as soon as I slow down again, the temps return to the lower 1/2 of the dial...

    I replaced the thermostat today - no difference. It heats up quickly to around the normal temps, and sits there on idle. Only 80kph+ seems to get the heat going.

    I've also noticed that the heater in the car doesn't seem to get very hot. I've checked the vacuum operated heater tap and that seems to be operating as it should (ie the switch opens and closes) although I had to fix this - the cutoff wasn't working properly at the start.

    Any suggestions on this? I would assume that when they replaced the motor that they would have done a flush etc...
     
  17. aussieakito

    aussieakito Holden Dealer Master Tech

    Messages:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    Manual VY SS2, 2005 Rolla Sportivo
    probably full of air.
    have a go at bleeding it.
    just get the engine warm and open up the bleeder.

    make sure the heater is on while you are doing it.
     
  18. CRCinAU

    CRCinAU New Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Location:
    Craigieburn, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VR Series 2 EQUIPE
    I've done this so many times its not funny. When warm, I get either a trickle or a stream of coolant coming out the bleeder...
     
  19. Brett_jjj

    Brett_jjj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,805
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Location:
    Tamworth NSW
    Members Ride:
    vs commodore
    It could be a worn water pump rotor causing this. The vanes on the water pump rotor can wear, (especially on some cheaper pumps), which then restricts the flow of coolant through the engine at higher revs, causing overheating. Also check the bottom radiator hose for collapsing when the engine is revved.
     

Share This Page