Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

History lesson 3800 v6 owners

Discussion in 'General' started by jphanna, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    I reckon there would be a fair bit more than just the manifold required. Have a look at where the coils are located compared to your Commodore and you would probably have to replace things like the oil pump (faces directly forward in the photo instead of sideways), engine mountings, thermostate housing, - might be easier to just get a complete motor and try installing it.
     
  2. hakhawk

    hakhawk smooth moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,326
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Members Ride:
    BMW E21 320i, E36 "318IS" coupe
    thermostat housing comes with the manifold, just get a new hose. coils can be put where ever you want, just change lead length. alternator is in much the same position as standard, engine mounts shouldnt need to be touched, stock ecotec oil pump and filter arrangement should be fine.

    clearance for the belt from alternator to aircon would be the biggest struggle.

    stock ecotec arrangement for comparison

    [​IMG]
     
  3. hakhawk

    hakhawk smooth moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,326
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Members Ride:
    BMW E21 320i, E36 "318IS" coupe
    a front on pic of the yank one, albeit a rather hard pic to see

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    Interesting photos. Yeah, the A/C compressor is in a different location, isn't it, and I see the point regarding belt clearance.

    You'd have to wonder if anybody bothers importing used V6's into Australia, because they'd be pretty cheap in the States. Otherwise, onto the ol' internet to see if they can be purchased from US wreckers or auto suppliers.
     
  5. hakhawk

    hakhawk smooth moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,326
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Members Ride:
    BMW E21 320i, E36 "318IS" coupe
    shipping would be the killer.

    one would need to do what i did, buy the manifold and any "needed" ancillaries , ie. thermostat housing, probably alternator, throttlebody(an earlier model, not the elec one), bolt it to a motor, and sort out the belt problems if any.

    this is the l27 manifold from the yank motors. i've flipped it around to face the front. will get it done oneday

    [​IMG]
     
  6. BowTie

    BowTie Active Member

    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2008
    Members Ride:
    VS V6 Acclaim
  7. jphanna

    jphanna New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Members Ride:
    VE OMEGA
    So i get to stay?

    i still havnt given up on proving that the fireball V8 (which the 3800V6 is related to)was originally a BMW pushrod V8 design, disgarded from the failed 507. I read this ONCE in a wheels magazine in the late 80's, early 90's.

    you know the GULLWING 300 SLR from the 50's (another collector famous car), well that had a 3.0Litre SLANT 6. does anyone you know have a slant 6 valiant, well take a look at the motor...its designed by the same guy that did the MERC....he went to USA to work for Chrysler.
     
  8. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,372
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Location:
    Melbourne S.E.
    Members Ride:
    Ford Fairmont
    The buick v6 is based on a v8 not sure which v8 but its defenitely a v8 motor with 2 cylinders hacked off. How can you tell?? well nobody but yank are stupid enough to make a 90 degree v6 they're also to lazy to design a completely new motor.
    the v6 has inherent imbalance issues due to it being a 90 degree v6. theres no even firing pattern due to this and it causes bad vibrations. So along the way the added a balance shaft and used a offset split journals on the big ends to try and even out the balancing.
     
  9. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    Well, I've learnt something. I was wrong.......again. (puts head in bucket)
     
  10. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,372
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Location:
    Melbourne S.E.
    Members Ride:
    Ford Fairmont
    I dont think it was based on an alloy v8. Though the casting of cast iron is a lot cheaper than alloy maybe cost restraints forced them to use cast iron instead of alloy
     
  11. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,372
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Location:
    Melbourne S.E.
    Members Ride:
    Ford Fairmont
    I dont think it was based on an alloy v8. Though the casting of cast iron is a lot cheaper than alloy maybe cost restraints forced them to use cast iron instead of alloy.

    Well after eading that candian driver thread maybe it was based on the alloy v8
     
  12. Growler88

    Growler88 New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Location:
    Perth
    Members Ride:
    VT v6
    I heard something a long long time ago that the engine that was in the old morris minor 1000's (849cc and 950cc i think) 4pots were later used to power datsun 120Y's. not 100% but it explains why they are a direct bolt in. despite nearly 70% more displacement and 3times the power..
     
  13. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,342
    Likes Received:
    2,312
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Location:
    Sth Auck, NZ
    Members Ride:
    HSV VS Senator, VX s2 Calais S/C
    i though only the later versions of the 3800 had the offset bigend journals? from what i've read, with the offset journals the firing order is even through the entire revolution of the crank. the other big issue with this engine seems to be that factory "tolerances" for balancing are really poor.

    the yanks also had oddfire and evenfire versions of this engine. not exactly sure what the differences are. the factory turbo'd buick regal grand national cars certainly but a few V8's to shame in there day. there is a large after market parts supply for these engines.
     
  14. jphanna

    jphanna New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Members Ride:
    VE OMEGA
    mate its not about one upmanship or name calling, its just something i find very interesting. the V6 3800 that a lot of you drive, has had a very interesting history....and the v8 that its derived from is a F1 success story.

    did you know that ford anglia (pommy sh1t box)4 Cyl engine 'morphed' into the first cosworth V8 f1 engne? they put 2 blocks together...the rest as they say...
     
  15. Pub247

    Pub247 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,372
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Location:
    Melbourne S.E.
    Members Ride:
    Ford Fairmont
    Cranks from all holden versions of the buick v6 have offset journal in fact theyre all pretty much indenticle except for the l67 version. tolerances and factory are fairly poor on the v6 but the same can be said for holden 6's and v8's
     
  16. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,148
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    Oh, it's not a case of being one-upped, or even being wrong. Heck, being wrong is something I'm pretty familiar with.

    It's more a case of being pretty certain of my facts, then being shown to only know part of the story.

    I had the alloy V8 history with its sale to Leyland spot on, but the fact that the V6 was in any wa related to the alloy V8 is a real surprise.

    Still, congrats on bringing an interesting thread to the forum. It has certainly evoked a fair bit of comment.
     

Share This Page