Holden Commodore Limited Edition models

[ProfMopar]

Dilemma for my MSE (delivered in 2 weeks) ; to be a daily driver :
1. Keep Standard
2. W375
3. W407.

Money is there for all options, but now the decision has to be made it has become more difficult than ever!

Drive the car around a few months, son. Get to know it. That stock LS3 ain't no slouch. Then, think about the probability of resale. I know in my case the answer is zero, but I'm sure there are folks here who may consider selling one day, or some who are even intending it. I am quite confident in declaring that resale will be better for showroom stockers rather than modded (Walkinshaw or not) cars. Remember, these are limited editions and the BEST performance cars ever built and sold as Holdens. If you wanna go faster, hot up a standard SS or SSVR, not an MSE. However, if you're gonna keep the MSE forever, do as you will, but aim for reversible mods...you know, no hole in the hood, 9" diff, Powerglide etc.
If you do then decide to hot it up, do some research, talk to folks who have done it, go to some Holden shows, go to the street drags. The Walkinshaw packages are straightforward and reasonable first steps, but they are at least double the cost of comparable packages elsewhere. Moreover, the W375 and W407 don't really make that much extra power next to the stock 304kW; they go a little bit better, but not 70-100kW better. They put out about 325kW and 345kW respectively, scaled to the stocker being 304kW. I drove a W407 and it's fun, but it ain't ten grand more fun.
You're in Perth, so I don't know, but back east the places to look are Herrod, C.O.M.E, George Haddad, KPM. There are plenty of others, but these guys have proven, time and again on the dragstrip, that they know how to do it.

 

[ProfMopar]

No Cuda, straight from the factory which seems would have made it pretty rare with the optional 308 (in that it didn't go to HDT). I was at my mates place last night (party) admiring his two E49 mock-ups. One's his race car and the other is a street car he built up. He use to own the origional E49 he offered me for 7K Shame I didn't have the camera/phone for you and the professor. Any engine where the carburation is about the same size as the engine block looks impressive, sort of purposeful. BTW, I was watching the burnout masters on maaate yesterday, now I know two uses for the Demon

Martin, I can tell you with the benefit of ownership and tinkering, that those Webers WERE the secret for 265 Hemis. Hot up a 265 with all the usuals, and throw a Holley on some 4bbl manifold and it went hard; chuck on the six-pack instead, and it went like Hell! Not only that, it went better everywhere...at 6000rpm and straight off idle....simply incredible. I never would have believed how good the isolated runner system worked unless I owned one. Apologies for the non-MSE post, gentlemen.

 

[Martin Norris]

Really? I think it is about the same, seriously. That's a ridiculous proposition that the extra money paid for know bits bundled together with a sticker and insurance package is more than the sum of its parts. It's exactly as valuable as an extended warranty at resale, some may be suckered into that and value it in resale but doesn't actually mean there's value. Just an abundance of dumb suckers.
By DIY you mean every speed shop (most get better results than Walkinshaw) that doesn't put a Walkinshaw sticker on the same bits, you know VCM, HM or DPE, Harrop etc., is worth less?
Or do you propose that cars with same or better quality tuned parts professionally fitted and don't have the Walkinshaw sticker anywhere are worth less at resale?
I don't agree, I think the state of tune and parts are taken on their individual merit through inspection and qualified results. Not whether the seller paid over market price in the first place for a brand.
Walkinshaw badge means anything from air filter to rort "pack" as above, it is mostly bullshit and does not make it a unique, collectable car. Quite the opposite - says the owner has zero clue about money or customising for real performance - there is no intrinsic value.

I think it would be fair to say monstar not everyone here (or many for that fact) shares your interest and understanding of engine dynamics and dollars spent VS efficency/performance gains. The fact is all they want to do is take their pride and joy somewhere where they trust the people working on the car and they can drive away with X amount of claimed KW's, there's nothing wrong with that and its a large market that your Walkinshaw/Harrop/etc groups make alot of money from. Then there's the type that spend upteen hours researching every last detail of each component and its flow on effect before forming an opinion whether to buy it, and you know they are going to install it themselves because they don't trust any two-bit mechanic to do the job right. They do it because they love it, the complexity and detail, but not everyone gets there jollies by studying heat engines in thermodynamics. We're all different but the Walky/Harrop brigade don't need to hear how they're being ripped off, for them its fast, its easy and some would claim its added value. There's no right or wrong, its just what suits. Sure you may be just wanting to offer advice but I think its advice they don't want to hear.
That said, from my point of view best bang for buck mod to a LS3 is the cam and a tune, its all in the cam evidenty. One question, in stop start traffic does a OTR CAI draw in hot air radiated off the radiator causing the thermo's to cycle constantly?

 

[426Cuda]

I had a Brock white SS group three in 1982. Sold it to buy the 1985 VK group A.

In the VH models not all SS were Brock. Most just came from Holden. Lots were also 253.

The Brock cars were HDT. The rest were Holden.

Yep. Same situation with the VK's.

 

[426Cuda]

1 is definety out

2&3 are soft.

Save for the power. Once driven she will be a keeper for ever.

But, for a daily driver?

 

[arronm]

I think it would be fair to say monstar not everyone here (or many for that fact) shares your interest and understanding of engine dynamics and dollars spent VS efficency/performance gains. The fact is all they want to do is take their pride and joy somewhere where they trust the people working on the car and they can drive away with X amount of claimed KW's, there's nothing wrong with that and its a large market that your Walkinshaw/Harrop/etc groups make alot of money from. Then there's the type that spend upteen hours researching every last detail of each component and its flow on effect before forming an opinion whether to buy it, and you know they are going to install it themselves because they don't trust any two-bit mechanic to do the job right. They do it because they love it, the complexity and detail, but not everyone gets there jollies by studying heat engines in thermodynamics. We're all different but the Walky/Harrop brigade don't need to hear how they're being ripped off, for them its fast, its easy and some would claim its added value. There's no right or wrong, its just what suits. Sure you may be just wanting to offer advice but I think its advice they don't want to hear.
That said, from my point of view best bang for buck mod to a LS3 is the cam and a tune, its all in the cam evidenty. One question, in stop start traffic does a OTR CAI draw in hot air radiated off the radiator causing the thermo's to cycle constantly?

Its everyones own money, spend it how you like. Even though I am not short of cash I dont like wasting it. I like value for money.

For most people a little bit more power and some loud exhaust note and they love it.

But to me power is addictive and you just need more. Everyone is different though. My wife thinks a Hyundai excel is a speed weapon.....

OTR heat , maybe when stationary but once moving even at a snail pace and it wont draw hot air.

 

[Martin Norris]

Martin, I can tell you with the benefit of ownership and tinkering, that those Webers WERE the secret for 265 Hemis. Hot up a 265 with all the usuals, and throw a Holley on some 4bbl manifold and it went hard; chuck on the six-pack instead, and it went like Hell! Not only that, it went better everywhere...at 6000rpm and straight off idle....simply incredible. I never would have believed how good the isolated runner system worked unless I owned one. Apologies for the non-MSE post, gentlemen.

G'Day Professor, if my memory serves me correctly I think the carburation was developed by webber for that engine. Not too sure about alot of low down torque though, been discussing the effect of inlet tract length with monstar and I think it would be safe to say the 265 in E38/49 guise was all about peak HP. Idle smoothness certainly indicated it wasn't cammed for usual day to day duties. So my question to you professor, cracked rail?

 

[Martin Norris]

Drive the car around a few months, son. Get to know it. That stock LS3 ain't no slouch. Then, think about the probability of resale. I know in my case the answer is zero, but I'm sure there are folks here who may consider selling one day, or some who are even intending it. I am quite confident in declaring that resale will be better for showroom stockers rather than modded (Walkinshaw or not) cars. Remember, these are limited editions and the BEST performance cars ever built and sold as Holdens. If you wanna go faster, hot up a standard SS or SSVR, not an MSE. However, if you're gonna keep the MSE forever, do as you will, but aim for reversible mods...you know, no hole in the hood, 9" diff, Powerglide etc.
If you do then decide to hot it up, do some research, talk to folks who have done it, go to some Holden shows, go to the street drags. The Walkinshaw packages are straightforward and reasonable first steps, but they are at least double the cost of comparable packages elsewhere. Moreover, the W375 and W407 don't really make that much extra power next to the stock 304kW; they go a little bit better, but not 70-100kW better. They put out about 325kW and 345kW respectively, scaled to the stocker being 304kW. I drove a W407 and it's fun, but it ain't ten grand more fun.
You're in Perth, so I don't know, but back east the places to look are Herrod, C.O.M.E, George Haddad, KPM. There are plenty of others, but these guys have proven, time and again on the dragstrip, that they know how to do it.

I agree, see what its like in factory trim before deciding on mods as its not just the LS3, the diff ratio change has a significant effect also. Any mod will decrease resale, if that is of any importance.

 

[426Cuda]

Martin, I can tell you with the benefit of ownership and tinkering, that those Webers WERE the secret for 265 Hemis. Hot up a 265 with all the usuals, and throw a Holley on some 4bbl manifold and it went hard; chuck on the six-pack instead, and it went like Hell! Not only that, it went better everywhere...at 6000rpm and straight off idle....simply incredible. I never would have believed how good the isolated runner system worked unless I owned one. Apologies for the non-MSE post, gentlemen.

I'm with you prof. Although these days, some 4bbl's are actuly out performing the 6 packs. Similar situation with the 340 and 440's and Chevy Tri power. Quad and dual quad are outperforming the sick packs (albeit, Holley, 2bbl, not Webber).
The bottom line is, even in stock trim, the Hemi six was, and remains a great base. Despite some short comings.
The LA's, are a better base hands down though and pound for pound, $4$ were a better proposition than Chev, Ford or Holden.
I'm sorry too!!!

 

[Martin Norris]

I'm with you prof. Although these days, some 4bbl's are actuly out performing the 6 packs. Similar situation with the 340 and 440's and Chevy Tri power. Quad and dual quad are outperforming the sick packs (albeit, Holley, 2bbl, not Webber).
The bottom line is, even in stock trim, the Hemi six was, and remains a great base. Despite some short comings.
The LA's, are a better base hands down though and pound for pound, $4$ were a better proposition than Chev, Ford or Holden.
I'm sorry too!!!

You know what happens when we start talking mopar, its bat and ball time Oh, I'm sorry also, kinda, back to topic. So, easy mod is mild/torque cam, install yourself or get a good mech to do it and a tune. Still idles nice but decent increase to torque and there's no way of knowing so no insurance issues. Can buy cam kits from US, no need to upgrade valve springs as its mild not wild. Rest of LS3 flows well, though some better flowing cats would be a benefit.