Holden Factory

[mantaray56]

What a pity. It was not the workers nor the unions but it was huge multi nationals and the Stock market. The Government was told what to do. We are barely a blip on the world's financial radar.

 

[Calaber]

What a pity. It was not the workers nor the unions but it was huge multi nationals and the Stock
market. The Government was told what to do. We are barely a blip on the world's financial radar.

Untrue. Despite the fact that we are about the 50th largest nation in terms of population, we have the 12th largest economy in the wold.

Australia is anything but a "blip on the world's financial radar".

 

[Skydrol]

When you say millitary does it have any relationship to the necessity for the US to be at war with a country on a regular basis to keep homeland industries healthy and artifically keeping the economy in a better state than it should be?...or the exhorbitant payments the govt and their cronies make to the whole millitary supply industry and contractors involved to keep the wars going?

Yes...!

A good example, does anybody know about the Boeing 787 Dreamliner? A marvellous piece of engineering; Carbon Fiber almost everything (except for obvious parts). Where do you think the development money came from? That is how we are able to make some "at a loss" and make some cash. One funny scandal is the infamous $500 Toilet Seat and the $500 Hammer. Based loosely on Congressional investigations about misuse and abuse of Gov funding. All that money trickles down to the workers pockets, just a small portion and I can say 30% tops and I am generous, the rest, is money for mates. The news are so blunt sometimes. They tell you all about who shot who and what with range and all the specs. To be honest, that is a sales pitch; the meme of my **** is better than yours.

I think Oz is falling behind... My impression of Australia is that has plentiful know how, I have high hopes for you guys; just no weapon industry and that is a huge money making gig.

Perhaps I got it all wrong... maybe a Tesla like car. Very high end, high performance, all electric, 500 KM range and sell it about the same price as a brand new VF Commodore and use the soon to be "Old GMH" plant. The same way Tesla did with the old and decommissioned NUMMI GM Plant in Fremont California.

There is an option for the Holden plant.

 

[Nitro_X]

*chuckle*

He makes some good points. I've never purchased any model of "brand new car".....but only because I can't afford the financial debt it would require.

 

[Skydrol]

That was a good video; love the metaphores and analogies. Same crap in the US. When GM went "Bust" (wink-wink, nudge-nudge), the Gov should let them go bust. If that was truth, some investor/s would picked up and perhaps do some house cleaning. GM owns Holden, so might be going the Pontiac way; close it at the end and keep the name. Roger Penske made a bid on Saturn, same with Pontiac. GM, supposedly was belly up, did not sold them; just hoarded the name plates. That does not sounds to me like a company in dire straits.

 

[Calaber]

I'm just as disappointed as most here that Holden will cease local production and I have my doubts that the new line-up of vehicles is going to achieve what the company hopes. By the time local production ceases, Holden's market share will have slipped even further and the market will be dominated by Korean vehicles and Toyotas IMO. All the talk about the "next Commodore" tends to overlook the fact that people don't really want the current model so much anymore, because it's the wrong sort of vehicle. The next 'Commodore" will again be a largish sedan - yet Australians are turning away from that configuration and buying SUV's or small cars, so how is the new model going to succeed where the current model no longer can? Being "all new" and more modern than the VE/VF will help, but it won't overcome the basic fact that it's no longer the type of car Australian families want.

Like others on this thread, I'd love to see an Australian industrial conglomerate (eg BHP-Billiton), buy out the Holden manufacturing plants, holding facilities, dealer network links, the HOLDEN name and Lion insignia, and the Aboriginal Holden model names lock, stock and barrel. Keep the "Australia's Own Car" theme going, with more reality to the term than has existed since 1948.

As a suggested take-over plan, the new owners buy all rights to the use of Holden nameplates and corporate insignias, but continue to build existing local models under license for a period of "X" years to enable new, locally designed and manufactured models to be developed and to keep the existing facilities operating and workforce employed. The licensing agreement would need to permit modifications to the designs and engineering as required, to keep the "old" models at least competitive within their market sectors until they could be replaced. Imported models such as the Opels and GM Korea cars, would continue to be marketed through the existing dealer network but purchased from GM beforehand.

The new designs created within the Design Studio should be distinctly individual, not owing design features to any existing GM designs, and are planned with a proposed release date to coincide with the termination of licensing agreements. (The licensing agreement would need to be flexible to allow for any delays in releasing the new models)The vehicles would have to be carefully planned to meet market demand and export potential would have to be at the top of the list. For the local market, former Holden model designations which were part of the buy-out, such as Monaro or Torana, could be used for the new models but export models of the same cars could have nameplates more suited to world markets.

Unfortunately, it's all a dream, but it's a nice one, just the same.

 

[crew_man]

The 'Next-Gen Commodore' isn't intended to be a volume selling vehicle by any means.

The reason that they announced a next-gen commodore was to try and illustrate to the Australian public that 'Holden' wasn't leaving Asutralia, just the production of the Commodore and that the Holden brand remains committed to Australia.

At the time people were very unsure of what the closure announcement actually meant.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Commodore name is dropped completely after a few years into the imported model, as the public will then be aware of what is going on with the brand, so no need to cling to it.

 

[crew_man]

As a suggested take-over plan, the new owners buy all rights to the use of Holden nameplates and corporate insignias, but continue to build existing local models under license for a period of "X" years to enable new, locally designed and manufactured models to be developed and to keep the existing facilities operating and workforce employed. The licensing agreement would need to permit modifications to the designs and engineering as required, to keep the "old" models at least competitive within their market sectors until they could be replaced. Imported models such as the Opels and GM Korea cars, would continue to be marketed through the existing dealer network but purchased from GM beforehand.

The new designs created within the Design Studio should be distinctly individual, not owing design features to any existing GM designs, and are planned with a proposed release date to coincide with the termination of licensing agreements. (The licensing agreement would need to be flexible to allow for any delays in releasing the new models)The vehicles would have to be carefully planned to meet market demand and export potential would have to be at the top of the list. For the local market, former Holden model designations which were part of the buy-out, such as Monaro or Torana, could be used for the new models but export models of the same cars could have nameplates more suited to world markets.

Unfortunately, it's all a dream, but it's a nice one, just the same.

What makes you think that GM would even consider selling it's stake in the Australian market? They have developed the brand and the equity that comes with it over decades, they're not going to throw it all away to replace it with a brand that means nothing here, just so that somebody else can try-and-fail to do what they found unsustainable.

 

[Calaber]

What makes you think that GM would even consider selling it's stake in the Australian market? They have developed the brand and the equity that comes with it over decades, they're not going to throw it all away to replace it with a brand that means nothing here, just so that somebody else can try-and-fail to do what they found unsustainable.

It appears you have misunderstood my post.

I was not suggesting that the ownership of the company would remain as a GM subsidiary after buy-out. The idea was that the new owners owned the Holden name, company logo, factories, Lang Lang and ties to the existing Holden dealer network - in other words, everything. Once the licensed manufacturing period had expired, it would by "Thanks GM, bye bye, piss off."

Now, why do I think GM would even think of selling out? Simple. For years, Holden has lost money - buckets of it, despite Government hand-outs. The Holden legacy has copped a hiding on our market, so the "brand and equity" points you raise probably don't count for very much at GM these days. To them, the name Holden is just another brand they have to carry when they would probably rather not and the list of famous GM brand names consigned to the dust bin is long. Holden would just be another name they could get rid of. I'm not suggesting that it is replaced with another brand that means nothing here - they can sell their cars as Chevrolet or any other well-known GM brand they choose. Apart from Australia and New Zealand, and maybe a few small Pacific nations, Holden products are not even sold as Holdens, so the brand and equity issue is worth nothing outside a very small portion of the world car market.

Second point about selling out the brand name. What are they going to do with all the manufacturing equipment they currently have in Australia? Dismantle it and transport it to another plant overseas at massive cost? Flog it off as scrap? Try to find another buyer in Australia, who doesn't make cars, but "might" be able to adapt it to some other industry? GM is about making money. Do you really think they wouldn't jump at somebody waving a big fat cheque under their nose to buy out all that equipment and plant? You don't need that sort of facility if you are only going to become an importer.

Finally, regarding the next Commodore becoming a niche model. I know that. It will be a niche model, alright, because it will appeal to a diminishing market. But what will their mainstream, big sellers be? The Euro's wont be able to compete with the Koreans on price, and by the time they finally reach here, the market will be pretty well stitched up by Hyundai and Toyota, if current selling trends are anything to go by. Holden has stated it wants to be no. 1 in Australia again. How are they going to achieve that if they don't have highly successful mainstream models? Marketing cars in multiple niche markets won't achieve that.

 

[crew_man]

I think that I understood your initial post, I understood that you meant that Holden as a whole should be sold to a third party and run under license - my point was that it doesn't make any sense to get rid of all of these things that GM can cling to as PR and Brand equity that Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Cadillac etc. do not have. Then have to set up a new dealer network to compete with their former-selves in already over-saturated market.

Correct, Holden has lost a lot of money, which is the reason for the closure of manufacturing but this opens up growth opportunities as a full importer, allowing them to branch into new market segments and better utilise global platforms with greater margins, POTENTIALLY reversing the decline in profits.

On your second point - I am well aware of the plans for the Elizabeth plant and the future models post-2017 (as I am an ex-GMH employee) and it's not a simple matter of closing it and selling everything off, but I can't go into that.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes at GM and GMH that will come to light in the coming years but I can assure you that there is a future model mix that can be very competitive in this market.

I'd like to point out that there has been a lot of talk lately about Guido Dumarey's interest in taking over the Zeta platform and the Elizabeth plant which I find very interesting (given the current plans at GMH I would say that the chance of him taking over are very very slim). His idea is similar to yours, but it only encompasses the IP for the commodore and the Elizabeth plant (rather than the whole brand, dealer network, R&D facilities etc.), which could potentially work if there aren't any export restrictions placed on it which would allow for vehicles to be exported globally without the worry of taking market share from other higher-margin products in the GM portfolio.