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Holden Factory

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Nitro_X, Dec 14, 2015.

  1. monkey

    monkey Donating Member

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    " "There's a growing awareness that the decision to close the car industry was beginning to look like a pretty big mistake," Mr Weatherill said.

    "I think with the low Australian dollar now, I think the circumstances that pertain now, if the decision had been made in this environment I think a very different decision would have been made. "

    You reckon? Who made the decision? Wanker. :banstick:
     
  2. vc commodore

    vc commodore Well-Known Member

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    Holden had 2 shifts running back all those years ago....Day shift and arvo shift 5 days per week. When the down turn occurred, they went to just morning shift 5 days per week.....

    If my memory serves me right, morning shift was from 7ish in the morning to 3ish in the arvo.....the arvo shift then started around 3.30 ish and finished around midnight.

    So what was happening was, the morning shift workers would work 5 days per week, and have the next 5 working days off, at reduced pay, so it didn't effect their acrued holidays or sick leave....The 5 days that the morning shift had off, the arvo shift workers would come in to work the morning shift hours....Same thing happened pay wise as previously mentioned

    The weekends were used by maintenance crews to check things out along the production line.....The down turn in production also effected that crew as well, but unfortunately I'm unsure how they operated

    hope that clarifies things a bit better
     
  3. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    Well, you cant rely on the Australian dollar to be this low going forward into the future. Yes given that the dollar stays around the 65c mark the decision might have changed. Its very likely that the dollar goes back to around 80c and the decision becomes much harder again.

    What happens when it jumps 20c in 3 years time? Theyre back in the exact same situation where its a borderline call.

    Long term it was really the only decision they could have made and from a business standpoint you cant continue to make large gambles with billions upon billions of dollars.

    As a pollie, its easy to sit back what, 3 or 4 years on and say well maybe you should have copped those years of operating losses for the chance of the dollar dropping, but theres no guarantees and if he was a shareholder hed be screaming for blood if they did.
     
  4. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Yet Glen Stevens has been preaching to all and sundry that the dollar needed to fall.

    While there is "seperation" (or suppossed to be) between the RBA and govco surely they would have had some idea that the RBA's strategy was to reduce the dollar and therefore make the whole situation more viable, at least in the medium term.

    Delaying the inevitable ? Maybe. Or maybe providing the manufacturers with a wake up call and a timeframe to produce something locally that the greater market wanted rather than destorying the industry completely.

    Unfortunately we will never know.
     
  5. monkey

    monkey Donating Member

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    Yeah 2sides to every coin it just grinds my gears hearing pollies say stuff like that after the fact. We could all see it coming and have probably not been very wise with our tax dollars or long term planning. For the sake of the region i hope that factory keeps making something. Perhaps military vehicles, with the base right next door. Maybe an electric vehicle and advanced engineering hub? I cant recall any ideas been thrown around by the gov but im probably not paying close enough attention like usual.
     
  6. VS 5.0

    VS 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Why would you ? They have no idea(s).
     
  7. boingk

    boingk Member

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    Nothing would have stopped it - the multi-billion worth international company (ie GM) pulled the plug. Simple as that. Not financially viable. We did a great job but could not remain competitive due to demand for the type of vehicle unable to be provided, high product material, development and labour costs, outsourcing costs (hi GM) and a host of other reasons.

    Things change.

    Having said all that, GM had headquarters in China from 10 years ago. They know what's going on, and likely relied heavily upon the US bail-out of them deliberately, not purely by chance that 'oh gee we got caught out'. How do you think these multinational conglomerates stay around so long?

    Newsflash - we aren't a third world country, we have some of the highest wages for the base level worker in the world and, apart from being one of the most geographically isolated places in the world, we are also one of the most geographically isolated by distance within our own borders. How many of you have been outside your own state? To more than four states? Yeah, exactly.

    Rant over, it was gonna happen. Remember, we've been driving Chev products for years. Nothing will change in that regard except where they are made.
     
  8. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    ...and thats one of the biggest issues.

    How do you force a massive international company to changes its business strategy to suit a small market? GM was always just going to say well stuff you guys at the first sign of the Government putting them under any pressure. GM wanted a way out and they were always going to find it.

    Saying to GM Detroit, you need to change X Y Z to retain local funding, after the US did the same, they wouldve just said you know what, we dont need you.

    Ignoring any other factors like wages, the public wasnt buying the GM products anymore. GMH had no interest in pushing anything other than the Commodore. Has anyone seen anything about an Insignia? Malibu? Cascada? Trax? I havent. Theyve got these products but arent pushing them.
     
  9. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    If you think back to the introduction of the VE, it was touted as the "Billion Dollar Baby". Given that VE production exceeded half a million units and that those enormous development costs have been further amortised during VF production, it would be interesting to know if GM has actually recouped its money post tax and made a profit.

    If Holden had remained in production, the VE/VF replacement would have to have been a configuration that Australians are buying in sufficient numbers to make it viable, as well as having strong export potential. The local market alone cannot sustain local production - the Falcon is proof of that. So...a new SUV, that is VERY competitive locally and overseas, in markets that are already saturated with just about every maker in the world building them? And if the VE cost over a billion a decade ago, how much would you have to pour into the new vehicle - 1.5, 2 billion? Who has that sort of money (apart probably from Toyota) to develop a totally new car. Just about every component in the current local Holden production system is unsuitable - particularly the V6 engines, which are too small in capacity and lack the necessary torque to lug heavier bodies around. It would require a completely new body and engine. You might adapt a chassis from an existing or forthcoming model, likewise suspension and brakes, but would it then be viable designing and building an indigenous design, or do you just manufacture and assemble a model from overseas? Probably the latter. Yes, it would keep the factory going and workers employed, but the end product still wouldn't be an "Australian Holden" - just another badge engineering job.

    IMO, Holden's problems started around the turn of the century. The Commodore was riding high and sales were very buoyant. The range of different vehicles based on the Commodore floorpan was enormous. The GFC was just another group of letters that hadn't been sighted on the long range radar and the large sedan was Holden's bread and butter. A replacement sedan was the obvious way to go - it was what Holden did best. They also ditched the European models in favour of much cheaper (and far less effective) Korean models. Economically rational but dumb.

    But in hindsight, spending a billion dollars designing a new large sedan was the wrong decision. If Holden had commenced development of the right type of vehicle around 2000, instead of the VE, who knows how they might be today? For some years, Ford succeeded with the Territory where Holden failed with the Adventra. The only reason the Territory has fallen away in recent times is because it is now over ten years old and struggles to compete with more modern competition. Had Ford developed a new generation Territory (ala the Everest) for local production, who knows how they might be today, too.

    Bad decisions all round. Hard to feel pity for companies that don't clean their crystal balls once in a while.
     
  10. monkey

    monkey Donating Member

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    Agree calaber. I reckon they missed the boat with the torana concept. I wouldve had a mid sized rwd or awd V6 daily like that in a heartbeat, chuck a snail or two at it for shits and giggles and away you go. Fwd 4cyl cruize? No thanx, but thats just me and ill never be able to afford a new car so GM would never care what people like me think. And ive always wished they would make a decent 4x4 with a V8 option maybe a duramax diesel, its nice to have dreams lol. I guess the adventra wasnt different enough and was a bit confused as to its identity but at least Holden had the money and was allowed to try. I just wish GM wasnt going to shaft us with bland a to b cars that are only good for just that. Only time will tell i guess.
     
  11. Skydrol

    Skydrol Well-Known Member

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    In the US, GM went all FWD except for the obvious. The only car was the Corvette for few years after pulling the plug from the Trans Am/Firebird and Camaro.

    All they want is one size fits all scenario. That is why SUVs are popular. I will drive my VE/G8 until the wheels falls off.

    Anyway, are you guys ready to join the SUV/Truck crowd?
     
  12. monkey

    monkey Donating Member

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    Yep but our car parks and bank balances arent.
     
  13. gossie

    gossie Well-Known Member

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  14. crew_man

    crew_man Active Member

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    Nope - I much prefer the driving dynamics and refinement of my Commodore.

    If I needed a tray from a truck - i'd buy a Commodore Ute
     
  15. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    Mate, if the F Series trucks came here. I would snap one up in a second. Unfortunately, Ford has no interest because theyre so popular there.
     
  16. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    Australian roads are already full of SUV's and light trucks. We don't get all that the States get, such as the Ram, Tundra or Suburban for example, but there are literally hundreds of thousands of the things here already.

    Most of the guys here would rather drop off a cliff than be seen in an SUV (except me - I have a piddly little one but I'm old:spot on: and don't need the thrills of an eight anymore). They'll hang onto theirs like you want to do with yours - it won't be difficult - Aussie cars are pretty durable.
     
  17. figjam

    figjam Donating Member

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    I suppose we will have to, regardless of whether we want to or not. Hiluxes, Tritons and Navaras do nothing for me at all. Went through that 3 years ago and ended up with a AWD Crewman, which feels like a Commodore sedan in handling and ride, and will go most places those other utes go. Not everybody wants to drive beaches, rocks and fire tracks.
    Your US trucks are waaay too big for my liking, but if there is no alternative and the $$$$s are right......maybe.
    And as for SUVs.......what is sporty about a pumped wagon on stilts ? A very unfortunate description that we have got stuck with.
     
  18. Rajesh Koothrappali

    Rajesh Koothrappali Banned

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    +1 and only if they're at REALISTIC prices. But it'll never happen.
     
  19. st3r3otyp3

    st3r3otyp3 Donating Member

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  20. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    If they were at a similar pricing as they are over there, similar to how the Mustangs are priced here. I would be sold.
     

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