Holden quitting

[Eevo]

what do mazda, toyota, nissan, bmw, vw etc have in common but holden didnt have?

it sold large numbers of cars globally.

holden didnt do that.

if holden sold 1-2 million cars each year, i think they still would be around

 

[mpower]

what do mazda, toyota, nissan, bmw, vw etc have in common but holden didnt have?

it sold large numbers of cars globally.

holden didnt do that.

if holden sold 1-2 million cars each year, i think they still would be around

wth dude?

Globally GM are No 3 behind VW and Toyota.

 

[Eevo]

wth dude?

Globally GM are No 3 behind VW and Toyota.

ect = GM
also my list wasnt in any order

 

[c2105026]

wth dude?

Globally GM are No 3 behind VW and Toyota.

But the thing is what we built locally wasn't exported in huge numbers.

When you think about it, large RWD cars are now a niche product. Only places where cheaper versions of these may sell are the US, Sth Africa and Australia. Otoh, small FWD 4cyl cars, like them or not, are sold in large numbers everywhere.

 

[Wats_in_a_name]

My 2 cents worth. Firstly, given the explosion in SUVs why couldn' t the Captive and Rodeo be built at the Elizabeth plant alongside the Commodore and the Cruze? If some capital cost was required to do this it would not have been unreasonable to ask for assistance from the Federal and SA Governments if it is a one off grant that would be recouped in taxes on future earnings.

Similarly at one stage 25% of Commodores being sold were V8s. Given this the opportunity to upgrade the Fishermans Bend plant to produce the V8 engine locally should have been investigated. It would not have been unreasonable to discuss assistance from the Victorian Government for capital improvements to be recouped in taxes on future earnings. With Ford closing it could have been an opportunity for Holden to discuss such a move with the Victorian Government.

Secondly, what tarrifs would apply to a Commodore being exported to Japan, China, Thailand etc. Would the tarrif be the same as if a foreign car was imported to Australia or higher. If the tarrif on a Commodore was higher then it would be completely fair to impose a higher tarrif on a vehicle being imported to Australia (for example how does the tarrif on a Mazda coming into Australia compare to what would apply to a Commodore exported to Japan?).

Another contributor to Holden's demise is the state of GM itself. GM had to be bailed out by the US Government and close the Pontiac and Saturn brands. This would likely have contributed to funds not being available to refresh the Commodore back in 2008/2009 at a time when it would originally have been scheduled. GM in the US I believe has also had issues with recalls. Also, I believe that the state of GM prevented further investment in RWD vehicles globally that was originally planned.

I believe that a combination of factors rather than any single issue led to the downfall of Holden.

 

[crew_man]

My 2 cents worth. Firstly, given the explosion in SUVs why couldn' t the Captive and Rodeo be built at the Elizabeth plant alongside the Commodore and the Cruze?

Despite the growth in SUV sales, the volume simply isnt there. Plus there are next to no parts in common with those cars, so you would need to look at the Captiva as a separate car to the Commodore. If it isn't profitable to build a car that sells tens of thousands a year (commodore) how could it be profitable to add the additional costs to manufacture a car that sells a few thousand?

Similarly at one stage 25% of Commodores being sold were V8s. Given this the opportunity to upgrade the Fishermans Bend plant to produce the V8 engine locally should have been investigated.

Again, this comes down to volume and economy of scale. 25% of a small number is just a smaller number, making it very expensive to produce niche engines, for a niche product in a declining market.

The whole idea of the V8 Commodore is that they are an affordable every-day performance/muscle car. Adding unnecessary costs by producing a V8 engine here would only reduce quality/sales. Plus purchasing USA developed V8's allows us to enjoy massive economies of scale that they have over there (being the biggest V8 market in the world), leading to better engines for lower prices.

Secondly, what tarrifs would apply to a Commodore being exported to Japan, China, Thailand etc

The tariffs differ and soon there will be a FTA with all of these countries. It all comes down to the individual markets and whether or not the Commodore could be placed there competitively - which it couldnt. Just remember that the Commodore has been exported over the years, but unfortunately it didn't sell in great enough volume.

Also remember that these countries have their own car industries which dwarf the size of ours. They are also able to produce cars for much cheaper > giving them export potential > which increases the economy of scale > making cars cheaper locally.

Why would people in these densely populated countries buy a big-commodore when they could buy a better suited vehicle for cheaper?

Another contributor to Holden's demise is the state of GM itself. GM had to be bailed out by the US Government and close the Pontiac and Saturn brands. This would likely have contributed to funds not being available to refresh the Commodore back in 2008/2009 at a time when it would originally have been scheduled.

This isn't true - Holden did not get hit nearly as hard as other GM subsidiaries during the GFC.

You are also forgetting the VE - also known as GM's Billion Dollar Baby, which was released in 2007.

Also - product planning, design, engineering, funds allocation, product sourcing, investment etc. all happen years before the product release, so the issues facing GM had a minor impact on Holden, as GM had invested $1-billion into the VE long before the GFC hit.

I believe that a combination of factors rather than any single issue led to the downfall of Holden.

That is correct, but unfortunately you have missed the important ones

 

[crew_man]

It also seems to me that a lot of the people that are having a go at Holden for closing manufacturing drive Commodores that are 10+ years old.

Perhaps if all of the Holden band-wagoners had bought Commodores and Holden was to leave anyway then their arguments might have a bit more weight to them.

 

[Forg]

So think this is the most appropriate place to maybe have a conversation surrounding this:

Exclusive: Dumarey confirms bid for Commodore and Elizabeth

Crunch time is now for Aussie automotive icons as Belgian entrepreneur reveals 'Project Erich'

Project Erich, Belgian entrepreneur Guido Dumarey’s plan to save the locally-developed Holden Commodore from death at the end of 2017 will kick into high-gear in the New Year.

In an exclusive interview with motoring.com.au at his Strasbourg, France, headquarters last Thursday, Dumarey said his shock bid to keep Commodore, and the Elizabeth plant in which it is built alive, must be signed off in 2016 with most of the heavy lifting completed in the first six months of the year.

...

In the interview last week at Punch Powerglide, the automatic transmission plant he purchased from GM in 2012, Dumarey revealed he had intentionally not approached Holden.

...

Dumarey negotiated supportive terms for his takeover of the Strasbourg plant, which had been announced as closing in 2014 at the cost of 1000 jobs. GM provided purchase guarantees for the first two years of operation and free license to develop the 6L40 and 45 automatic transmissions.

The plant is now ramping up to 1350 employees and is expanding courtesy of a 250 million Euro investment to build the 8HP50 automatic transmission for ZF. BMW is now its biggest customer.

But not all Dumarey’s business ventures have been successful. His ownership of BBS wheels was a bust and his involvement with another transmission company, Punch Powertrain, hit the rocks in the global financial crisis.

And also: Exclusive: Denali four-door ute part of Dumarey’s Zeta plan

 

[Forg]

^ And ... oops, over here.