Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Holden quitting

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
Aussie manufacturing - in general - has been treated poorly and the blame laid firmly on subsidies (GM are a net win from subsidies) and the labour market (which is high everywhere compared to third world sweatshops).

This is a smokescreen, and less than half the story do yourself a favour and do some research beyond the headlines.
 

Grennan

Slayer of Stupid Threads
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
2,513
Reaction score
79
Points
0
Location
Glen Waverley, Victoria
Members Ride
VE SSV G8 Sportswagon
Once again, you try to insult me by implying im not informed on the subject and simply rely on headlines. As someone who works in the industry I can assure you, I am not merely looking at the headlines.

But please, point out to me where I am wrong in the assessment of the situation instead of chucking out condescension.
 

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
Once again, you try to insult me by implying im not informed on the subject and simply rely on headlines. As someone who works in the industry I can assure you, I am not merely looking at the headlines.

But please, point out to me where I am wrong in the assessment of the situation instead of chucking out condescension.

You have failed to do your research.

FactCheck: do other countries subsidise their car industry more than we do?

The media used subsidies like this great big scary thing, the labour market isn't the be all and end all either - part of a bigger picture.
 

Grennan

Slayer of Stupid Threads
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
2,513
Reaction score
79
Points
0
Location
Glen Waverley, Victoria
Members Ride
VE SSV G8 Sportswagon
I never said other countries dont make subsidies. I simply said it is not prudent for any Government to prop up failing industry who do a) Do not want to remain in a certain country and b) fail to make any structural changes in order to be more competitive in said market.

I never said it was the be all to end all. I also simply said that one of the largest costs to an organization is man power. Its also the easiest to save money on. I also said that it was a contributing factor along with many other reasons i cited and you apparently ignored in favor of nit picking.

If youre going to make claims like im not informed, you could atleast read the ####ing post.
 

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
I never said other countries dont make subsidies. I simply said it is not prudent for any Government to prop up failing industry who do a) Do not want to remain in a certain country and b) fail to make any structural changes in order to be more competitive in said market.

I never said it was the be all to end all. I also simply said that one of the largest costs to an organization is man power. Its also the easiest to save money on. I also said that it was a contributing factor along with many other reasons i cited and you apparently ignored in favor of nit picking.

If youre going to make claims like im not informed, you could atleast read the ####ing post.

The government was never by any stretch of the imagination "propping up" GM. That's a complete fallacy.
 

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
They were propping up GM in this country.

As evidenced by them leaving the very moment the handouts stopped.

none of that is evidence, they are simply getting a better deal elsewhere.

on top of the the TPP will allow them to import cars with little to no duties from overseas.

Subsidies apply to all industries, all businesses.
 

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
I dont know how you can be so blind.

Handouts were helping GM stay in Australia - aka propping them up.

When the helping out stopped, they left.

They got a better deal elsewhere aka - cheaper labor in Asia.

GM dollar for dollar were getting a bad deal here, and they were getting attacked in the media endlessly.

Businesses across the board are given subsidies (calling them handouts is a fundamental misunderstanding of what they are), GM got large ones because they are a large company.

Car manufacturers are being welcomed with open arms and wallets into asian countries of course they will leave - the TPP will be the final nail in that coffin.

Japan, Germany, the UK and the US all value their car industries and we treated ours with contempt. That's why they left.

I honestly encourage you again to look deeper. It's nowhere near as simple as people think. Manufacturing in a country like ours does not need to stop.

Like I said, we're regressing - no high tech industry at all and manufacturers like GM, Ford and Toyota all run out of town.

Multi-nationals inject huge dollars into the local economy, they (GM) were a net win for Australia. We got the better end of the deal by a longshot.

I'm hardly surprised they left though, I wouldn't want to do business here.
 

mpower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
1,713
Points
113
Location
Brisbane
Members Ride
V2 CV8 Monaro and VF SSV Redline
Bit of food for thought from this old article.

How we lost our place in the global car industry

In 2002, the Howard government unveiled a car plan to ensure that Australia remained a car-making country for another decade. It offered the industry a compromise: we will keep subsidising you until 2015, at diminishing levels, but with no commitment to any support beyond that.

It was a gamble, later overtaken by an even bigger policy gamble, as the federal government and Reserve Bank persuaded themselves that Australia had entered a new age of so much mineral wealth that it no longer need worry about preserving manufacturing or other trade-exposed industries.

The government and the Reserve sat back and watched as the Australian dollar climbed relentlessly higher, making our producers less competitive in global markets. Other countries used a range of strategies to hold down their currencies: intervening in the markets, lowering interest rates almost to zero, regulating capital flows, capping key exchange rates, and using quantitative easing to flood the market with money. Australia just did nothing.

In 2002, Australia's low dollar made it a cheap place to produce goods and services. Of the 34 advanced countries, the International Monetary Fund estimates, our average cost of production ranked 22nd, similar to that of poorer European countries such as Spain and Cyprus.

Now, the IMF says, Australia has the third-highest cost of production in the advanced world, behind only Norway and Switzerland. There are a range of reasons: as a country, we have felt no sense of crisis and no need for painful reforms to lower costs and lift productivity, as most of the advanced world has.

But most of the deterioration in our competitiveness is due to the overvalued dollar. We have made ourselves a high-cost location. If that lasts, many more manufacturers will follow Ford out the door - including most of the car industry.

The problem is not the carbon tax, which adds less than $200 to the cost of an Australian-made car's cost. Coalition plans to cut $500 million of support from the industry would add far more to costs.

The Coalition's policy to cut $500 million from car industry subsidies and hold a Productivity Commission inquiry into industry support suggests it is no longer willing to pay the price of keeping the industry here. Unless consumers want to buy Australian-made cars, it is hard to see the industry being viable.

But its demise would imply big costs to Melbourne, Geelong and Adelaide, where almost all 50,000 workers in car manufacturing live. It would remove $5 billion a year of production, and $3.5 billion a year of exports. Be careful what you wish for.
 
Top