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Discussion in 'Straight 6 Development And Modification' started by defa, Feb 3, 2008.
JP 202 was LJ XU-1
its factory replacement is NP prefix
the LC XU-1 was 186
its prefix's were: 186X (early)
as to the Value for the 179HP?. well i recon only about $50 for a long, suit rebuild.
... i have 4, and i would let them go for $50 each,
ALL HP blocks were fitted with steel cranks. Which are stronger and rev harder and higher than the standard crank.
The HR X2 model did NOT come with a two barrel WW Stromberg carb. X2 was the official model denomination for Twin single barrel down draught Stromberg carbs.
The EH had a model released known as the S4, this was Holden's first factory "Performance" car, it had wider brake drums and shoes, a very mild cam and only came with a high comp 179. There was no option for Automatic in this model. It was quicker than the standard EH but not by much.
There were four engine options in the EH, both low and high comp versions of both 149 and 179 engines. The HD carried these engines over, adding the twin carb, 2 piece header in the X2 version.
The compression rating was all in the head, it's got nothing to do with the block. On the passeger side of the head there is either an L or an H cast into it about 2/3's of the way down towards the rear end of the head. L for low comp and H for high comp.
When the HR was released both 149 and 179 were replaced by the 161 and 186, again both high and low comp version plus the X2 twin carb with 2 piece headers as featured on the HD.
The JP block as used in LC and LJ GTR and GTR-XU1 was also fitted with the steel crank. They are highly sought after items among the Torana crowd.
The engine number will help identify the cubic capacity of the block in question. Google some car clubs and they'll be happy to help you out.
An HP block with either a steel crank or a black motor internally balanced crank with the "starfire" rods as fitted to the starfire four cylinder in VC commies and Toyota Corona's and also black motors with a high comp head, 40/80 solid cam and multiple carbs with the black motor's electronic dizzy make for one hot sixpot. Factory bits put together in this combination are tough and reliable with good horsepower outputs. In an early Holden EJ, EH, HD, HR or a LC LJ Torrie, this combo will give most 5litre VN-VS a run for its money. My Uncle has an LJ 2 door with triple Dellortos and a Celica 5 speed with a very similar combo to what I've described above and has run 13 second passes at Eastern Creek.
except All JP's are 202 , LJ only
- all LC XU-1 ran a 186, prefixes that i have listed above. ^^^^
- there is no such thing as a steel 202 crank.
- the 179HP in the EH was only available on one compression ratio, all had prefix M
- the steel crank in the 179HP contiuned, but in the Mid 1965 HD up was cast as 179, not HP.
Yeah, I stuffed that one up about the LJ XU1's, I forgot they were changed to 202's. I think I might've had a few bourbons that night.
I don't want to start a full on brawl, but I'm pretty sure EH 179's had both L & H heads available.
I'll take it onboard, but I've just re-read what I posted but I can't seem to find any reference to a steel 202 crank. Only internally balanced 202 cranks and no reference to 179HP HD's either, but I suppose it doesn't really matter anyway.
no worries mate.
i was just pointing out that the HD 179 was the same as the HP,
i.e both had steel crank.
HP blocks also had thicker bore castings
as for steel cranks, yes the earlier smaller engines 149,161,179 had nodular steel cranks, but i am pretty sure that the 202's from the XU1 GTR (GTR only) also had them (please correct me if i am wrong), spun by heavy duty rods. later models all had cast cranks, and the blue motors (2.85 and 3.3) got the fully counterbalanced cast crankshaft which had bigger big end journals than the red cranks, spun buy the famous starfire rods (the strongers factory holden rods). These rods where the only decent thing to come of that gutless little 4cyl boat anchor.
A value on a HP block would depend on it's condtion and who was buying it, a virgin block (std bore, std height and std tunnels) is prolly worth about $250 to the right buyer, the steel crank about $450 (again it is a STD/STD virgin with no bend or damage). and the matching high compression head another $300
Someone mentioned a HP cast 308 block? depending on it's engine number it is most likely a GTS bathurst monaro block.
some of the old hp blocks could be bored 220 thou as to 60 thou that used to make them wanted (also made them time bombs) as for high or low compression all six cyl came with that option. holden 202. 149 high compression head. ford 250 pre crossflow crank with starfire rods. decent carby in a toranna. most things will have trouble trying to match this.
That's all good but ^^ the "Bathurst" Monaro were just the top of the range with the 327/350s that had the bigger tank, solid bushed (from the HK's) front end, I think they had tramp rods on the leaf springs too. There were no 308's in them
they are definately a 179. I have seen three of them. One originally out of an EH and its replacement.
Where I saw them used to some advantage was the third one I saw. It was suped up, I think 149 or shaved head to bump up compression, multi carbs, etc to be raced in hillclimb under 3 litre class in a homemade race buggy build on a who knows what chassis. It was used to get the guy into an under three litre class.
It wasn't that is was the best motor in the world but available, relative cheap way to use a holden six in a level of motor sport you can get into and have some chance of competiveness.
Hk. came out with 307 (327 bathurst) chev HT. HG both came out with 253 308 (350 bathurst). iv never seen 308 hp block. only 179 hp
I've seen two different HP 308 blocks. Both in HG's or there abouts, they are or were definalty around not that I think they are anything special
Some HP 308 motors came out in some J series beford trucks
Not entirely correct. Yes.blue and black 202 (3.3lt) had full counterbalanced cast cranks but 2.85lt blue's (or 173's) did not. Starfire rods and blue/black rods are the same the change was made across the whole range they're just a name that has stuck for no real reason.
Blocks n carbs....
Hey bloke, I'm a bit late (like 4 yrs), but hey, I'm old enough to be late.
Some facts for ya....
186s - didn't have twin carbs, only the X2 (hence the name), which was a 179HP in a HD or HR.
HP Block - is a 179. It was the crank which is the good part. You'll find blokes doing up a red motor will use a 179 HP crank if they can.
Valiant Hemi 265 S Block - The back of the block is cast different to other hemi 6's. It's set up to take V8 gearboxes and tranny's.
WANT A TOUGH HEMI ? Get a 245 Heavy Duty motor from a truck. They have an extra main bearing.
Myself ? I run a dead stock (right down to the hubcaps) HG Kingswood with 75000 on the clock, optioned bucket seats and console from the factory, optioned metallic paint from the factory, and barely a spanner has touched it.
My daily drive.
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I only just read this post myself and agree with Scottagun on the motors.
There is still a shortage of hp blocks at std bore as the app J racers are still on the lookout for them.
Back in the 1970,s we used to use the hp block bored out to 192 with a fully ported 149 head, 308 stainless valves etc.
You could not get a better motor till they started using the modified 250 cranks.
Now I see that they are also using modded 250 x flow heads on 202's to get them to rev a bit harder.
I have been told that they will rev freely to 7500 rpm.
Thanks for bumping this thread guys, I got a good laugh reading most of the "info" in it. The filler in between the handful of facts anyway
I have no relavant knowledge but maybe It's made by hewlett packard
HP blocks were just 179 cid fitted to eh they had the 149 which had no engine ID casting both had steel cracks I fitted heaps of ford 221 stroker cranks to these 179 hp blocks for customers bored them out to 3.655" (std 186 bore plus 55 tho) to fit the ford slugs seem to handle it ok had a couple of rejects due to rust eating into the cylinder noone used anti corrosion back then . Had a few 308 HP blocks through the workshop as well these her very earll HG blocks the 253 's of the same era had no block casting on them
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