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I wanna de-stroke a 3.8

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by Dr Goggles, May 25, 2010.

  1. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    OK, before I go any further I just noticed that this thread has been rated with five stars. That's nice and I'd like to thank those who gave it the thumbs up, but also would like to point out that I didn't do it for attention for reason other than to find stuff out. The very title of the thread about de-stroking a 3.8 has been answered and acted upon,but I copped heaps of other useful stuff out of it.Steve from Mace Engineering has sorted the LS-1 stainless roller rockers so we can use them on the series one heads, that was a great piece of the puzzle that we needed sorting.Thanks Steve. Others have answered questions and also posed some that got me thinking.So thanks to all you other guys, I wont list you in case I leave one out but you've all been a great help on this thread.

    Next: Tsunamix, I've spoken to that Raptor guy but I didn't know about those water cooled jobs. We won't be going there in the near future but in time it might be just what we're doing.

    Matchport: Yeah I know Jon Amo, he came out here in 2006 with Mike Akatif's Ack Attack team and the streamliner. He and his brother Joe(who ran 272mph on a 1000cc this year) brought a turbo 1000 Kwaka , John Noonan brought his turbo Hyabusa and Sam Wheeler (Owner of the Ezy-Hook motorbike streamliner which was a world record contender last year) was sharing the driving of the liner with Noonan.

    Jon Amo also started landracing.com which is a big site in the U.S devoted to guess what? I've never met but regularly correspond with Bob "Stainless" Steele ...here we are wearing his shirts ....he's a funny guy, smart and laid back...I think he was on Monster Garage or something for a bit...

    [​IMG]

    Stainless has a car with a couple of other guys called the "Bockscar" named after one of the planes that dropped the A Bomb and flew out of Wendover next to Bonneville ....it's got a Hyabusa motor and runs over 200mph, they've got a few bike records and now he's bought in on that liner with Amo......


    Can we borrow that motor you've got there?










    :rofl2:
     
  2. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    Aggravated Engine Assalt

    Hi Everyone, long time no post....I've been busy as a fat bloke with a white beard on Christmas eve.II've had a few articles in the mags and a few more on the way, been playin' gigs and turning up for the 9 to 5 .....a few weeks back I went up to Kalkallo to Norm Hardinge's place to pick up the diff parts that came back in his container. Sadly I didn't have much time to spare when I got there...front and central was the 34 roadster that has been to Bonneville the last few years ( finally topping the 2 this year)......Behind it was the ruthlessly chopped 34 coupe with V12 and a valanced cowl that's in the build, just a tiny patina of surface rust on the hand fabbed bodywork and some big Hurst slicks on the rear.....despite the left of centre appointments there's more than just a hint of the famous Pierson Brother's Coupe there.So anyway , a few pages back I'd told you we were mustering parts to build a really low numerical ratio 10 bolt set up for the bellytank with what is essentially a Quaiffe centre.....

    This shot shows the 7.5 inch Torsen series 2 Centre courtesy of our man in Phoenix Az. Sparky has been a great help in all this. Actually it was his idea, his know-how and then he tipped in some of his money and time ....so , we're forever in his debt.

    [​IMG]

    I also stopped by at Steve Angelovski's MACE Engineering .I'd bought , at his suggestion , some relatively cheap forged stainless roller tip roller rockers from the U.S made for an LS-1. Steve separated them and used Eco-tec style needle roller bearing and built a pedestal plate for them to mount to our Buick style V6 heads. Steve specializes in the Holden V6 and although there are several options for the later Ecotec there are no roller rockers that will bolt up to the Series 1. Steve was very helpful, cheaper than cheap ( hey , we got quoted some stupid amounts to get this done)and nice into the bargain.....he also waved the possibility of a group buy ( 100 sets, cheap)for some forged pistons under my nose.....hmmmmmmm...( more on that in a minute)

    this is how the LS-1 rockers came....

    [​IMG]

    here with the changed bearing.....

    [​IMG]

    and here sitting on the pedestal plate...the heads are at the Colonel's otherwise I would have shot them "in situ".....
    [​IMG]

    Last night the Colonel called me up, "I'm looking at these pistons"....
    I thought to myself ...."this doesn't sound good "....
    "I think they're stuffed "
    he said with his usual understatement.....

    "They're all scuffed , some of the rings are gone.., if I didn't know better I'd have thought it had been seized solid, looks like she got hot"

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    He called me back,

    "The mains are hammered , they just fell out, some have spun"

    [​IMG]

    So it seems we'll be needing some of those pistons Stevie !! We're thinking of upping the compression from the 9.6:1 we had......

    That brings us to this. We need some collateral for the racing budget so were having a clearance sale.......We have a brand new , never installed Alloytec 190. We have decided to sell it......anyone got an idea what it might be worth? Sensible suggestions or offers will be considered, then I'll post it on the For Sale section here, then it'll go on the big Auction site.

    Garn, git!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  3. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    Damn looks like toast :( what are the bores like?

    I like the look of those rockers:D
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  4. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    Wham bam

    er, they've seen better days apparently.......we're gonna compare the manual block I've got here or maybe the VP so we don't have to do the cam thrush, sorry thrust ( ahhhh, that's better) plate conversion........

    It beat the sheet out of the crank bearings so it's just as well we got another one because I don't reckon it would be too healthy either after going what looks like low on the slippery stuff and getting severely hammered.....dunno why(the vibration), likely the flywheel coming loose but who knows...I might be wrong but the 1st and 2nd rods from the left look a little blue at the small end too, would have gone haywire if they'd let go at 6500..............ya know that's probably why I had such trouble seeing on the last run, I'm glad it didn't have a catastrophic failure....it's one thing having a donk come apart on the burn-out pad but when you're getting along at 300 clicks it'd be a reasonable excuse to poo your pants.
     
  5. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    short on oil

    This used to be the rear main bearing..
    [​IMG]
    Now I know why I couldn't see on the last run I did , the motor was shaking itself to bits....

    here's the underside of one of the pistons, clean as a whistle...but notice that the rod is standing up by itself, they're as good as seized.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. soop

    soop Banned

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    Time to run 13:1 compression? :D
     
  7. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    currently having a bit of think about what we're gonna do, but whatever it is we really need to get a wriggle on now.................Immortality had some good ideas insurance wise...
     
  8. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    I think a decent extra capacity sump may be in order. i don't think you need all those fancy trap doors because it's all in a straight line but you definitely want a decent wind-age tray to strip the oil from the crank spinning at 6000+rpm and some extra capacity to ensure you don't run out of the slippery stuff again.

    ASR make great sumps (i'm getting one shortly) and they are site sponsors. maybe contact them and tell em what your doing and he may be able to supply something to suit

    cheers

    Bart
     
  9. VNracer34G

    VNracer34G Member

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    Get the Colonel to have a good look inside the timing cover/oil galleries, the ones i've seen are full of casting dags and restrictions - just begging for some relief, might be worth looking at opening up the mains galleries up too if your swapping over cam bearings, and don't forget to upgrade the relief spring.
     
  10. MACE

    MACE Well-Known Member

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    I knew the car was small but didn't realise how small it was going back to the previous pic of the car!

    Those pistons certainly look like they've been given a real hard time. Hopefully we'll have the group buy for the forged pistons sorted out in time.

    The rockers honestly came out better then expected so much so that we may even start stocking them, as no ones sells adjustables to suit these engines.

    As for that alloytec engine I know we discussed the challenges of running that engine, however I still think you should go for it :)

    If not I might be interested in it ;)

    Cheers
    Steve
     
  11. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    Recycling

    The Colonel did a measure up today and waved the pistons and rods under the noses of some knowledgeable folk who said their could have been some smarter things done during the build of the motor like drilling the lands to deliver to the bores and giving the pistons a touch more clearance but whatever , the result is the same . The motor is junk. It's 40 thou over, everything is scrap. Fortunately we've got a bunch of blocks, what we don't have now is a bunch of time.

    Ticked off.

    dull

    dull

    dull


    More later.:axe:
     
  12. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    that sucks mate, but not completely unexpected. wasn't this engine from V6 vengeance in another life? probably had a hard life i bet.
     
  13. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    yeah it was, but I'm pretty sure the mortal wound was our doing..... but like I said...

    Records or parts , we're in this to break things.
     
  14. vc81

    vc81 Member

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    what do you mean drilling the lands to deliver to the bores ? Thanks
     
  15. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    ring lands

    It was noted that there was burnt oil in the recessed accumulator area between the top two rings
    that there were no oil holes drilled in the oil ring lands for oil to get on the bores
    and that the top of the gudgeon pin on the piston I had hawked around had turned
    blue
     
  16. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    Farewell to V6 Vengeance.

    I've been trying to find some pistons for the build that cost less than a house.

    I haven't had any luck, any number of suggestions to get custom jobbies, however....right now we'd just like to have the bottom end we ran this year with a few little tweaks....well we got lucky and have snapped up a job lot that was on fleaBay.

    So , last night in the hammering rain I did the six hour round trip to East Gippsland, that was an odyssey in itself fortunately I had the wheel bearing in the front of the VT done yesterday and the engine mounts replaced ...as it was I reckon I had half a dozen aqua-planing events on the trip

    The get was a series one block that had all the machining done and a set of ACL race series 9.6:1 pistons( with a pictuire of Larry on the front) , rings ,bearings and gaskets all still in their wrappers. So we can without too much trouble put together the same thing that we had for less than we would have spent on the re-bore.( nah, not the block we ran it's goosed but another one ).........

    It's the later series one with all the holes under the cam which is good too, with a manual crank.

    we're getting the pistons coated THEN, it's off for a balance.....................

    bigger injectors this time too......

    we're making a bigger sump, got a quote on a custom one , I've nearly finished laughing.....
     
  17. jetboy

    jetboy You learn til u die

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    AAAHHHH the fun of the out back
     
  18. bpefi

    bpefi Tech

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    Just thought that I would throw a link in as if your after revs then this is it ...

    Other Projects
     
  19. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    Happy Christmas everyone.

    I'm dreaming of a white Christmas!
    [​IMG]

    Stay safe everyone......As Junior Brown said, "If ya wanna race stay on the race track"


    See you all on the board on the other side of a happy christmas....

    Be good.

    Dr Goggles
     
  20. Dr Goggles

    Dr Goggles New Member

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    Greetings Comm-rads,
    has anyone had experience with Kinsler EFI?

    Am considering a multi TB set-up for Buicks.

    which brings me to the question......what is the inlet port compatability situation for the series one VN and it's immediate predecessors ??????????

    Hope you all survived the christmas melee without adding too much to the racing weight
     

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