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I will never buy a new Holden again "ever"

Discussion in 'ZB Holden Commodore (2018)' started by gwog3, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    Sounds very concocted from a non owner and feel the vibe you’d never believe the truth about the brilliance of the four cyl petrol turbo
     
  2. StrayKiwi

    StrayKiwi Active Member

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    Tezza: I know you love your car. Thats great. But just as I have little chance convincing you that the V6 is actually quite a good drive, you won't convince me to go back to a turbo (of which I have 13 years of prior ownership).

    As for the VXR reviews, I read and watched as many as I could (and there aren't many) to get a general sense of what the journalists thought. My impression of their reviews were they were stuck in the past comparing the VXR with either the SS Commodore or trying to compare it with the Stinger GT. But when they evaluated the VXR by itself just as a car, they tend to be more favourable in their views. I won't go so far as to categorically say they were raving about it because not all of them did, but I can say for the most part they were impressed with the overall package even if the performance isn't what Holden have offered in the past.

    As I've said before, this car has been a slow burn for me and the wife, the more we drive it the more we realize we made the correct purchase. We couldn't be happier, as I am sure you are with your LT.
     
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  3. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    Thanks for your comments.. I’ll admit to going over the top, often motivated by people who say things



    I get over the top at times. The VXR though is poor value for what you get. I honestly believe some people purchase a car and have the money to do so, without really considering what they need or want. I could afford the VXR too but it is patently very very poor value for money and the performance is questioned as has been serious tyre wear. My car cost $27880, the VXR might have cost $48000 give or take. My goldilocks 4 cyl petrol Commodore is tremendous. It’s full of goodies. I actually want a Lotus Exige 430 hp Cup, a perfect car for stunning road and track performance but it would cost me 105 thousand British Pound. I actually can’t afford that though could I guess if I took a very big hit. It’s a preferred choice, rather than a Lamborghini Aventador many times the price of the Lotus or a very highly powered and highly priced Porsche. I of course won’t buy either. The RS V 6 ZB has proven to be a poor choice, vehemently denied, but true. AWD lovers have made a poor decision with the VXR and the RS V, but they will never admit to it to the grave. Silly isn’t it not to say, I got it wrong, you aren’t a lesser person to admit it. One fellow on this thread was rightly outraged about the tyre wear on his VXR, at least he admitted it. I bought a Mazda 3 18 months ago.. i made a mistake.. just noisy on the road, and the 2.5 litre 4 underwhelmed, aside from other things. The LT was not much more expensive when I purchased it in April 2019. Threads here are stacked with people who never admit to their mistakes. Why? The few people I know who have an LT or RS 4 cyl , said the LT or RS 4 cylinder amazed them with its fabulous balance, eagerness and pace and especially its lithe handling compared to the 6. With the LT, you get a great priced sports car and saloon comfort without the badges and the hype. When you look at the rear, all you see is the word “commodore”, a lower case word, no mention of Turbo, I like that. You get some idea it might have a fair bit of ‘pop’ by seeing the modest dual exhaust.
     
  4. Mayuri Krab

    Mayuri Krab Member

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    Currently visting my grandmother at the land of the communist (China) and ZB commodores (badged differently obviously) were quite common here...
     
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  5. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    Oh, my - what a strange world you inhabit.

    You keep referring to 'poor reviews' yet provide no citations.

    "The reality covers handling, braking, power to weight and so on" - exactly, and in all those metrics, the V6 AWD with the bigger wheels and lower-profile tyres exceeds the LT. Whether you like or agree with that, it's independently demonstrable.

    You keep referring to the 'extra fat', but ignore the 23% gain in power over the 10% gain in weight. You can't ignore it. It's called 'power-to-weight ratio' and negates your arguments to the contrary.

    I've owned several Commodores in the past:

    VX sedan
    VXII sedan
    VZ sedan
    VU Storm ute as well as a series 3 Monaro (even a Camira way back)

    I haven't bought a Commodore since the Monaro as none of them appealed to me, so you can't accuse me of 'hanging on to the past'. The ZB is the best of the Commodores yet (although I would have the Monaro back), and I think I can speak from first-hand experience of the car I currently own.

    I've also had a few 'modern' high-output' turbo fours, so can all speak from experience and give an informed critique of both.

    I'm fully aware of the programmed flat torque curve of many turbo fours, but unless you have a dual-stage or twin-scroll turbocharger, you get lag. You don't get lag in a normally-aspirated engine - again, that's just a fact.

    You're also ignoring the torque-steer of a front-wheel-drive car - GM has done a superb job of reducing torque-steer, almost eliminated it in fact and it's recognised as class-leading, but it's still there and is noticeable.

    Moving up to the RS-V you not only get the V6 and AWD (which you seem to discount), but the suspension is better; up front the RS-V gets HiPer strut front suspension that keeps the steering geometry consistent regardless of suspension travel and a five-link rear suspension, rather than the four-link on the base model.

    All this adds up to improved handling. Again, it's a fact whether you believe it or not.
    .

    Look, the bottom line here is that no-one's knocking your car - it's a fine beast - but to run-down higher-spec models with spurious, counter-intuitive and unverifiable statements is doing yourself no favours...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  6. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    I think the clue was in Benny66's words "I drove both the 4 cylinder and V6 before my purchase"

    :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  7. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    Ok, citations needed...

    1/ Point me to the V6 owners who have 'their tail between their legs'.
    2/ Point me to the legion of unhappy owners. Actual owners, not some unsubstantiated third-party commentary.
    3/ You can 'tune' a V6 too, it's not just the domain of turbos... Mercedes only just get 250KW in a twin dual-scroll turbocharged engine specifically designed for the job - you will never get that out of the GM four... And a quick look at Google hasn't revealed anyone doing it here in Oz.
    4/ Like-for-like an AWD will out-corner a FWD in any on-road situation. Initial front-end turn-in will be better with less weight over the front (within limits) as a simple by-product of the inertial mass in a FWD, but the AWD also steers the back end around the corner due to increased torque to the outside rear wheel (both rear wheels receive motive power) and will ultimately corner better.
     
  8. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    More power than the four. Also more power than the V6 that was in the VF, so there's that... I remember the article - it was comparing it with an SS - you know the V8 - so, in comparison, yes, the VXR has a 'lack of grunt', but more than the VF it replaced.

    Again, your next comment makes erroneous assumptions - I didn't pay $45-48k, nowhere near. That is the truth.

    Please detail where you can demonstrate empirical evidence that the 'AWD is a disaster"

    Like many of your comments thus far, I suspect you can't.
    .

    Seriously, no-one here's knocking your four-pot, but you seem to be on a quixotic campaign to denigrate higher models...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  9. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    After a week of 'normal driving I'm averaging 8.5l/100Km - but it's too early to tell - I'll track it for three months & report back... :)
     
  10. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    Bui
    Buicks :) there's talk of them shifting the manufacturer over to China...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  11. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    "The VXR though is poor value for what you get" - Not when you compare it to other European-built equivalents.

    "The RS V 6 ZB has proven to be a poor choice, vehemently denied, but true" - You're the only one saying this...

    "AWD lovers have made a poor decision with the VXR and the RS V, but they will never admit to it to the grave" - again, you're the one saying this, none of the V6 owners I've seen on here are...

    "Silly isn’t it not to say, I got it wrong" - Oh, the irony - methinks thou dost protest too much...
     
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  12. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    I’ve seen a number of your bullshit posts, making things up, and always finding a way to can the 4 cyl.
     
  13. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    ??? What are you on about .
     
  14. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    Got anything to say rather than this rot!
     
  15. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    There is a potential buyer for RS 4 , or the RS 6, in this thread ...read his comments .. he won’t go for the very questionable AWD .. he wants litheness .. he’s right. There is enough evidence here in these blogs for anyone to conclude, to have serious reservations about AWD, to ignore that, to ignore that and then have 167 extra fat on the rs v, and then fork out dough.. extra dough for the rs v. 6. he won’t do that. There are enough bloggers here who don’t like the drive ability of the rs 6 and the question marks. Dealer sales staff love the LT or RS 4 btw.
    And finally you don’t criticise the 4, but there is enough criticism about the rs 6.
     
  16. Tezza's ZB

    Tezza's ZB Member

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    The vxt
     
  17. benny66

    benny66 Benno

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    Who said the AWD was a disaster . I find it amazingly good to be honest . The directness and agility is amazing and you can really power into corners
     
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  18. StrayKiwi

    StrayKiwi Active Member

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    I don't like the AWD in my car. I LOVE IT.
     
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  19. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    And, yet again, please give citations; you're repeatedly making unsupportable, indefensible and erroneous claims regarding the AWD system in the ZB. Now you're speaking for 'bloggers' (I think you mean members) without reference or links... I've read through most of the last six months' worth of 'blogs' (perhaps you mean posts) on this site and haven't seen any detrimental commentary on the V6 or the AWD other than from those, like yourself, who don't own one...

    Dealers also love the RS-V, the Calais, the Calais-V and the VXR. They love Astras, Trax, Acadia, Colorado etc. etc. They love anything that will get you to lay down your money and drive away with a car; that's just the nature of the industry.

    (And again, you're talking about 'fat' on the RS-V - what part of 'power-to-weight ratio' do you not understand?).
     
  20. arsevee

    arsevee Active Member

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    Now you're criticising your own post..???

    :D:p
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019

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