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increasing compression

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by johnvtls1, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    hey guys, my vs has a stage 3 crow cam and port and polished heads. just wondering if its worth shaving the heads say 30-40 thou. wat would this bring the compression ratio up too and will it make much of a difference to power. also will i need a tweak in my tune after this is done? chhers
     
  2. ephect

    ephect Donating Member

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    it will bring up ur comp, but not very much, vs is 9.4:1 i think it will take it to about 9.6:1 9.7:1. you will feel a lil more power, but it wont be WOW this is the best thing i've ever done, if you up it to 10:1 u'll feel it more.
    RE: tune, i would get it retuned, and i think u'll have to run minimum 95ron fuel just so she doesnt ping, maybe 98 with the cam
     
  3. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    yeh 10:1 is wat the guy recomended to bring it up too. how much is that gonna cost me roughly just the shaving? and can i go even further then 10:1 or is that just stupid?
     
  4. ephect

    ephect Donating Member

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    well the highest i;ve ever seen is 10.5:1 on the emotec, i think anything over that, u gotta watch the valves hitting the pistions.. really its a strip down, new higher comp pistons and rods while ur there.

    umm cost of shaving i think is around 500-1000 depending on where u go, and how good ur heads are, see u may have to face em first get em flat, then shave. n if u can rip the heads off n take em in, or whether they do it for you.

    i would love 10.5:1 comp, n with the combo that u have so far, u'd be doing urself a favour, n would turn have into a beast of an engine
     
  5. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    yeh thats wanted to here. id happly spend a grand on the heads if its going to be worth it. pretty sure the heads are in good condition cos they we recoed when i had em port and polished. the thing thats killing me is the $440 labour charge i got quoted for taking the heads out and putting them back in. also one more question, should i put some roller rockers in while im at it. as im told my cams not massive. maybe i could chuck in some 1.8's
     
  6. ephect

    ephect Donating Member

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    i think my figures n what-not are round the mark, but i know theres a few that can either vouch or correct what i've said.

    yea i recon they'd still be in fair condition, u know if u got a decent price for the work, maybe go with 3 seat cut valves too. dont know how much but whilst the heads are off might be worth looking into
     
  7. sircruisealotVS

    sircruisealotVS Well-Known Member

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    shaving heads for a c/r increase is ok for small amounts like a 1 to 0.5 increase is safe enough just by shaving a few thou off (going to the trouble of taking the heads off - shaving then re-installing, with paying for labour and new head gaskets aswell, makes it hardly worth it at all though).
    for a really substantial increase in comp then the pistons themselves need changing to high comp ones - especially for a 10:1 + c/r where the pistons would want to be alot better than stock, either hyperuetectic or forged. so really you need to build the engine to run as a high comp n/a engine, with the right piston and rod combo so its all safe and the engine will last.
    you could go higher that 10:1, but i wouldnt recommend it, the engine probably wont last more than a few years, even if it is build right. alot of high comp engines, which are used in racing and such are stripped down regularly and rebuilt, which is ok for them, but not really the best for a street car.
     
  8. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    so how much is it gonna cost me to buy some high comp pistons then? or am i conna have to rebuild the bottom end for that?
     
  9. sircruisealotVS

    sircruisealotVS Well-Known Member

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    umm, yeah pretty much mate. looking at a few grand minimum, really depends on labour cost - which is the killer for things like engine rebuilds.
    basically you could go with shaving the heads and increase from 9.4:1 to 9.5:1/9.6:1 safely enough that way for probably just under a grand (going off your $440 cost to remove and re-fit heads + the head shaving + gaskets).
    or any more than that (more is possible, but on stock pisons is a bad idea in my opinion) you'd probably want to look more at changing the pistons, which would require a rebuild.

    the small c/r increase from shaving the heads would be pretty un-noticable in the scheme of things, bit more torque, tiny bit more top end. quality fuel would always be needed and your tune checked over (in particularl the timing) so you dont have any detonation/pinging issues.
     
  10. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    ahh cruisy u always ruin my fun lol. so if i didnt change my pistons my eninge will pretty much be stuffed? and wont last long? and is there no way i can just swap over my pistons? cos i just did a little research (within the last 10 minutes lol) and the pistons themselves arnt that pricy
     
  11. sircruisealotVS

    sircruisealotVS Well-Known Member

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    haha, i just dont wanna see you disappointed after spending heaps of money, or worse, blow up your engine. to my small knowledge of these things you cant just change the pistons over without taking the bottom end apart - but checking with someone else cant hurt incase im mistaken.

    edit - forgot to answer one of your questions - yes, the engine wouldnt last too long with stock pistons and high comp. stock pistons wont take too much abuse, so if you happen to get some pinging happening they'll be screwed in no time.
     
  12. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    lol yeh cheers mate. ill do a little more research and stuff and talk to the bloke whos would do the work. he seems to know wat hes talking about and reckons he got 180rwks out of his buick. but hes spent a **** load on his clearly. ill see wat he has to say not that i dont trust ur judgment or anything. cheers mate
     
  13. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    hey one more question. do u think it would be worth it upgrading my exhaust at all? iv got ur basic 2.5 inch cat back at the moument. would the car benifit much from twin 2.25 inch or 3 in or somthing else?
     
  14. azkwazere

    azkwazere Ahhh Yes, Ahhh Yes....

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    Nope....

    aZk.
     
  15. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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  16. azkwazere

    azkwazere Ahhh Yes, Ahhh Yes....

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    on a stock motor there is no need for such a large exhaust (bar 2.5), There isnt any flow restricitons at 2.5"... the stock motor isnt making enough power to warrent any bigger.

    If you go larger youll just loose back pressue and low down torque. You might gain some noise but thats about it really....

    For a stock V6, 2.5" is ideal.

    aZk.

    EDIT: Just relised you have a cam, even then, you said it yourslef that its a mild one. The only reason a six needs to be bigger is if its pulling horses now thats through either boost (+6psi) and/or serious NA work (storker, massive compression increases and extensive porting + cams)

    Stocky on here is(or maybe not, but he was) going to be getting a 2x2.25, but hes running 8pound of boost...

    You see VL turbos running 25pound and running 9sec passes, with a 3", do you really think your gonna match that sort of flow?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2008
  17. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    yeh but its not a stock enigine. atm its got a crow cam with port and polished heads but im looking at doing a bit more head work soon with some ratio rockers
     
  18. azkwazere

    azkwazere Ahhh Yes, Ahhh Yes....

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    read my above edit

    aZk.
     
  19. knowledge_is_power

    knowledge_is_power Quest for Cognition

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    I've had a few exhaust on my car and I would say that the best system I have ran was twin 2 1/4" pipes coming off the extractors into twin 2 1/4" cats then a Y merge into 2 1/2" pipe, muffler and resi. simular to the factory exhaust system for the Supercharged 3.8L.

    The good thing about this setup is 2 1/4" cats come standard on VR commordores which you can pick up from a wrecker at a reasonable price. They will flow more then enough for the 3 cylinders each.

    My mate had the same thing on his car but put 3" pipe and muffler after the merge but that was just for noise.

    Jezz
     
  20. johnvtls1

    johnvtls1 New Member

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    yep thats fair enuf mate. i am looking for a lot more compression atm. thinking i might go ahead with the work just getting some quotes and researching more. that car should be pushing out over the 140 kws mark so i dont think a decent exhuast will hurt much
     

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