Insurance values and the current Holden used car market

[J_D 2.0]

About 2 years ago was hit in the VS, and was dead sure it would have been a write off, didnt realise the values had gone up even for it it is and as it was market value the assessor I ended up chatting to said "I know what these are worth, it wont be written off".
So at times market value can work in your favour.

The market value assessment normally works in your favour when your not the at fault party. They know your the one who’s been put out by the at fault driver so they are far more likely to be generous with the valuation.

When my VN I had got wiped out by someone running a stop sign it got valued at about $3500 even though I only paid $1200 for it and at that time you could get plenty of them for around the $2000 mark that were in better condition than mine.

 

[Dodgy_Davo]

The buy back option certainly can be beneficial

i dont think Shannon's offers salvage rights on anything younger than 30 years old though...only other mob i found was Enthusiasts Insurance who do it for 15 year old cars..

The market value assessment normally works in your favour when your not the at fault party. They know your the one who’s been put out by the at fault driver so they are far more likely to be generous with the valuation.

Not since covid messed up the used car market in my recent experience - they are going off things like Redbook values which are still pretty far off the mark over the last couple of years (although I've noticed a recent adjustment)

I rang around all the major motor insurers and it came down to just Shannon's and Enthusiasts who would provide a realistic agreed market value

 

[losh1971]

I bought back my 25 year old ute from Shannons.

 

[Dodgy_Davo]

I bought back my 25 year old ute from Shannons.

Interesting - their website says salvage rights are for vehicles 35 years and older...

Did you have some sort of special condition or upfront agreement with them?

 

[Skylarking]

Insurance companies are pricing these things at what they should be worth based on age kms and statistics on how much they cost their business per time basis. Let's face it an old Commodore with high kms and old tech shouldn't be worth the money people are paying.

The vehicles market value isn’t related to what an insurance company thinks they should be worth. Market value has no connection to their belief that people are overpaying for some models.

Market value is simply based on what the market bears for a given model vehicle. If values have gone up because Joe Average, petrol head esquire, is more than happy to pay a premium for one of our Holden’s, and such happens consistently across the market for that vehicle, then the value is what they change hands for despite what the insurance company thinks and what the lethargic slow to update blue/red book may state.

What this means is that when you have an insurance claim with a market value policy, you have a fight on your hands. That’s because the assessors job is to reduce the claim costs and your job is to get appropriate compensation for your loss. You need something that justifies your vehicles value and showing them for sales ads and other information from magazine articles about your model (of rare) does justify what the vehicle is worth in the market. But being in a hurry to settle doesn’t work in your favour.

And if the insurance company insist that your vehicle is valued a say $6k and you think the market indicates it’s worth $12k, tell them to find a comparable vehicle in similar condition and milage and if it’s agreeable by you that it is comparable, they can buy it as a replacement to your written off vehicle.After all, if their market view is so accurate it should be easy for them to find such a vehicle which has got to be better and cheaper than argue about price, where they ultimately end up paying more because they know they are full of bovine faeses

PS: there is only market value policy (=argue at claim time) or agreed value policy (= argue when taking out the policy). There is no such thing as agreed market value policy though I do understand you mean an agreed value policy that better reflects the true market value of your vehicle. Yes it’s pedantic terminology but I’m an ocd commodore owner so deal with it

 

[Pollushon]

The vehicles market value isn’t related to what an insurance company thinks they should be worth. Market value has no connection to their belief that people are overpaying for some models.

Market value is simply based on what the market bears for a given model vehicle. If values have gone up because Joe Average, petrol head esquire, is more than happy to pay a premium for one of our Holden’s, and such happens consistently across the market for that vehicle, then the value is what they change hands for despite what the insurance company thinks and what the lethargic slow to update blue/red book may state.

What this means is that when you have an insurance claim with a market value policy, you have a fight on your hands. That’s because the assessors job is to reduce the claim costs and your job is to get appropriate compensation for your loss. You need something that justifies your vehicles value and showing them for sales ads and other information from magazine articles about your model (of rare) does justify what the vehicle is worth in the market. But being in a hurry to settle doesn’t work in your favour.

And if the insurance company insist that your vehicle is valued a say $6k and you think the market indicates it’s worth $12k, tell them to find a comparable vehicle in similar condition and milage and if it’s agreeable by you that it is comparable, they can buy it as a replacement to your written off vehicle.After all, if their market view is so accurate it should be easy for them to find such a vehicle which has got to be better and cheaper than argue about price, where they ultimately end up paying more because they know they are full of bovine faeses

PS: there is only market value policy (=argue at claim time) or agreed value policy (= argue when taking out the policy). There is no such thing as agreed market value policy though I do understand you mean an agreed value policy that better reflects the true market value of your vehicle. Yes it’s pedantic terminology but I’m an ocd commodore owner so deal with it

I'm not quite sure what your point was. Markets are about end-to-end transactions not just sales ads and they differ from region to region. These cars aren't necessarily going for what's being asked, the market for v8 Holden's is not huge, we are an ageing breed. It's not worth more because it's maintained, you put mags on it and a cold air intake or because you think it's collectable. I'm pointing out how an insurer determines a market value and it's always the lowest common denominator. If you disagree and can't compromise then it's either court or for under 15k you can try AFCA. It's only going to lose you more in the end trying to present an objective case. The idea you can have an insurer by the balls of you pick market value is naive

You don't have to argue for agreed value, you simply pay for it through the cakehole and it's written into the contract. An insurer can't be arsed dealing with replacing rocking horse **** like I drive. Instead they give me $25k and what's left of the car

 

[Skylarking]

I'm not quite sure what your point was. Markets are about end-to-end transactions not just sales ads and they differ from region to region. These cars aren't necessarily going for what's being asked, the market for v8 Holden's is not huge, we are an ageing breed. It's not worth more because it's maintained, you put mags on it and a cold air intake or because you think it's collectable. I'm pointing out how an insurer determines a market value and it's always the lowest common denominator. If you disagree and can't compromise then it's either court or for under 15k you can try AFCA. It's only going to lose you more in the end trying to present an objective case. The idea you can have an insurer by the balls of you pick market value is naive

You don't have to argue for agreed value, you simply pay for it through the cakehole and it's written into the contract. An insurer can't be arsed dealing with replacing rocking horse **** like I drive. Instead they give me $25k and what's left of the car

The point is market value isn’t based on an insurance companies view that people are nuts to pay what they are paying for a specific vehicle as they don’t define the market. All they can do is react to market changes by adjusting their agreed value policies , increasing premiums or denying insurance on some vehicles.

And sales adds are indeed indicative of selling price (take a small % off) cause I’ve never seen someone, especially a dealer, asking for $12k and settling for $6k. Just doesn’t happen unless it’s some car restoration series on TV…

If you present objective data from sales adds and magazines, as I have done on two occasions, there is scope for considerable movement from their initial and pathetic offer. But as I said it’s an argument because insurance companies simply want to minimise their payout and often don’t want to listen to facts though they can’t deny them when written down by a 3rd party. Presenting them with info that’s difficult to refute will always help, even sales adds. In my two claims, they accepted the sales ad in one claim and the magazine article in the other. But in your case because you have a heavily modified vehicle, it’s rather different, rarer and difficult to value, so a speciality insurer is more suited. For stock factory cars, even rare stock factory cars, run of the mill market value or agreed value insurance policy is fine… I prefer market value…

As for arguments with insurance companies, maybe it was a strong term as annoying negotiation may be closer to the mark, but I’ll stick with calling it an argument. In any case, I’m sorry but you do argue for agreed value during the policy negotiations.. Main stream insurance low ball you and you can end up in a strong discussion where your told, and I’ll paraphrase, piss off and go to Shannon’s or one of the other specialist insurers and pay 3x the premium for the value you want to insure… And then Shannon’s may or may not agree with your assessment of the cars value. i
I call that arguments against stupid policy… If there was no negotiation/argument and peoples expectations were always met, why doesn’t everyone simply get $1M agreed value policy at a low premium and be done with it, some flood victims would be sitting pretty now

Such inflated agreed value policies aren’t offered as the agreed value must be in the ball park for the type of vehicle.. Heck, even Youi knowingly lowballs agreed value policies (on standard shiteboxes) and isn’t interested in offering market value policies last I spoke to them

In my case Shannon’s wanted $2500 or $2800 for an agreed value of $120k which they offered but I declined as I was happy with my $900 market value policy. I’ll cross that value bridge if ever the car is written off and a lowball market value policy is offered. Then the arguments begin… @ $100/hr, that’s 16 or 18 hours of pre tax arguments before I exceed the Shannon’s policy premium. It’s even more hours if tax is considered and even more if someone is on the basic wage

 

[Pollushon]

I think you're missing the point that's why there is market and agreed value and an insurance company can decide the market value based on whatever they heck they like, knowing your right of reply is almost non existent and negotiations are limited. Sure they won't offer you 1k for a 10k car but they will drop that value every year while your premiums go up. When you sign the market PDS that's what you've agreed to no matter what the trading post or some avid Holden fanboi says. Are you suggesting a lawyer is 100 bucks an hour? Try a sentence, let alone a magistrate per word spoken

Fact is if you want surety in insurance you need a binding contractual agreement and the money to back it up. 2.5k to cover 120k and whatever damage you might do isn't half bad. You think they'll just bend over for a third of that premium?

 

[J_D 2.0]

I think you're missing the point that's why there is market and agreed value and an insurance company can decide the market value based on whatever they heck they like, knowing your right of reply is almost non existent and negotiations are limited. Sure they won't offer you 1k for a 10k car but they will drop that value every year while your premiums go up. When you sign the market PDS that's what you've agreed to no matter what the trading post or some avid Holden fanboi says. Are you suggesting a lawyer is 100 bucks an hour? Try a sentence, let alone a magistrate per word spoken

Fact is if you want surety in insurance you need a binding contractual agreement and the money to back it up. 2.5k to cover 120k and whatever damage you might do isn't half bad. You think they'll just bend over for a third of that premium?

Agreed. At the end of the day the insurance company holds all the power regarding valuation and there’s no independent third party to act on your behalf (short of lawyering up). I’d much rather not go there and have an agreed value from the outset when the car I’m driving is “outperforming the market in valuation” as it were.

I’ve never had an agreed value policy in my life on any of my previous cars but they were all run of the mill cars that were only ever decreasing in value and there’s a heap of them around to A) determine a valuation and B) purchase as a replacement if I ever had a vehicle written off.

I also never used to be phased about having to buy a completely different car if I needed to. Now with the SSV being my forever car I’d definitely want to replace it with a similar vehicle in a write off so ensuring I get that value (to buy a similar replacement) is now top of my priority list when it comes to insurance.

 

[mpower]

if you think your car is under-insured call your insurer and argue for it to be raised.

I did this with both of my cars and raised them to a point where a major accident wasn't going to write them off and leave me out of pocket.

That imho is what you need to look at, think about what a costly repair may do to your vehicle. If it is enough to write it off for well under the value of it - negotiate, if the insurer does not agree - MOVE.

For reference I'm with Shannons.

I feel like a lot of the commenters above have never bothered to ask the question.