Insurance values and the current Holden used car market

[Dodgy_Davo]

In my case Shannon’s wanted $2500 or $2800 for an agreed value of $120k which they offered but I declined as I was happy with my $900 market value policy. I’ll cross that value bridge if ever the car is written off and a lowball market value policy is offered. Then the arguments begin…

The point is to avoid the argument in the first place as you dont have any leverage and they %100 will low ball you if there's no agreed upfront value..

For example i see in your profile you have a Commo Motorsport edition

If we go off current Redbook valuation ( which have only changed recently) of an '17 Auto MS Edition - the private guide is 66 - 72K

Now if we look at carsales asking prices as a rough guide on what they are going for , they are starting at almost 90K for the cheapest at the moment

17-18K out of pocket is no joke - and that's probably your best case scenario too...as It wouldn't surprise me if they go via trade in price or some other way to minimize what the outlay is...in this case the trade in price would be 59 - 65 K, leaving you potentially 25-30 K short...

yeah nah

 

[Skylarking]

I think you're missing the point that's why there is market and agreed value and an insurance company can decide the market value based on whatever they heck they like, knowing your right of reply is almost non existent and negotiations are limited. Sure they won't offer you 1k for a 10k car but they will drop that value every year while your premiums go up. When you sign the market PDS that's what you've agreed to no matter what the trading post or some avid Holden fanboi says. Are you suggesting a lawyer is 100 bucks an hour? Try a sentence, let alone a magistrate per word spoken

Fact is if you want surety in insurance you need a binding contractual agreement and the money to back it up. 2.5k to cover 120k and whatever damage you might do isn't half bad. You think they'll just bend over for a third of that premium?

I fully understand why there are market value and agreed value policies. I simply disagree with your initial statement that an insurance company’s emotive view that irrational people spending so much on a car can be disregarded and doesn’t impact the market values seen in the industry. What defines the market value is simply what those cars sell for in an open market. If everyone starts paying over the odds for particular vehicles, their market value prices go up.

Market values aren’t difficult to determine and then justify, if one is reasonable and especially if it’s for a common vehicle. Many people just like the certainty of a defined payout figure which is what an agreed value policy provides. But even in that case some people have been caught out as their agreed value policy was under market rates though, especially during these times where values were going up across the board (new and used cars).

Both market value and agreed value insurance policies are binding contracts. The later binds the insurance company to the market value which isn’t rocket science to determine and justify. Thing is, insurance companies like to low ball because many simply accept the first offer…

 

[Fu Manchu]

Yep same experience here - but for both Holden and ford v8s

Been with RAC like 20+ years and no matter what I said they just refused to adjust agreed values beyond a certain amount which would've left me a out of pocket should a write off occur, going by asking prices in the current market

They said id be better off going to Shannons - which I did and haven't looked back

RAC here in WA was who I also dealt with. Been with them for my insurance since I was a grommet with my first car.

No fkd given to palm off a lifetime customer by not insuring a car at market value. That is the value. This is the market. They should be doing it no matter what car. But here we are.

 

[Fu Manchu]

i dont think Shannon's offers salvage rights on anything younger than 30 years old though...only other mob i found was Enthusiasts Insurance who do it for 15 year old cars..



Not since covid messed up the used car market in my recent experience - they are going off things like Redbook values which are still pretty far off the mark over the last couple of years (although I've noticed a recent adjustment)

I rang around all the major motor insurers and it came down to just Shannon's and Enthusiasts who would provide a realistic agreed market value

They [Shannons] offered me a buy back offer on my Cross8 policy. 17years old.

 

[Pollushon]

I fully understand why there are market value and agreed value policies. I simply disagree with your initial statement that an insurance company’s emotive view that irrational people spending so much on a car can be disregarded and doesn’t impact the market values seen in the industry.

Both market value and agreed value insurance policies are binding contracts.

For one I never suggested it was emotive nor did I suggest it was irrational, you seem to be taking something personally here like a realisation of your gamble on the market? Reliance on legal arguments in case you have to claim? It's pure statistical business and legalise. Insurance companies don't make billions letting customers dictate and hope is not a strategy

Your other paragraph just says to me you've never read a PDS on what you've agreed to. Market value is a binding contract, in the insurers favour with some wriggle room for negotiation, anything further goes to a court. That's why agreed value contracts exist

 

[Dodgy_Davo]

RAC here in WA was who I also dealt with. Been with them for my insurance since I was a grommet with my first car.

No fkd given to palm off a lifetime customer by not insuring a car at market value. That is the value. This is the market. They should be doing it no matter what car. But here we are.

Yep i was surprised myself as they have been zero hassles to deal with in the past ..

My impression was they don't want to deal with this market segment anymore (enthusiast cars) so were not worried if customers walked - so time to leave ..shitcanned my roadside assist policy while i was there also..

They [Shannons] offered me a buy back offer on my Cross8 policy. 17years old.

How long ago ?
Did you specifically have that included up front?

Their PDS on the website says 35 years old...

 

[Skylarking]

The point is to avoid the argument in the first place as you dont have any leverage and they %100 will low ball you if there's no agreed upfront value..

For example i see in your profile you have a Commo Motorsport edition

If we go off current Redbook valuation ( which have only changed recently) of an '17 Auto MS Edition - the private guide is 66 - 72K

Now if we look at carsales asking prices as a rough guide on what they are going for , they are starting at almost 90K for the cheapest at the moment

17-18K out of pocket is no joke - and that's probably your best case scenario too...as It wouldn't surprise me if they go via trade in price or some other way to minimize what the outlay is...in this case the trade in price would be 59 - 65 K, leaving you potentially 25-30 K short...

yeah nah

I know they will try and low ball me but I also know I won’t accept such so I’m happy to negotiate for a better outcome for myself. Part and parcel of paying the lower market value premium.

As is currently, Redbook seems hugely outdated and it’s well behind true market rates. But if the insurance company believes that a low milage motorsport edition can be had for $67k, they are well within their rights to replace mine and I’d be cool with that occuring. Thing is they know they can’t replace that vehicle for Redbook listed value as the market value is well above what that publication states… It’s just a big bluff and my policy states market value, not redbook listed value so they can’t ignore adds that put the vehicles replacement around the $100k to $120k


It’s the game I’m willing to play and have played a few times before to my benefit.

 

[mpower]

i think there's some misunderstanding on what the average insurance customer is after.

number one for too many people is price of policy. If that's too high they barely look at anything and just walk.

 

[Skylarking]

For one I never suggested it was emotive nor did I suggest it was irrational, you seem to be taking something personally here like a realisation of your gamble on the market? Reliance on legal arguments in case you have to claim? It's pure statistical business and legalise. Insurance companies don't make billions letting customers dictate and hope is not a strategy

Your other paragraph just says to me you've never read a PDS on what you've agreed to. Market value is a binding contract, in the insurers favour with some wriggle room for negotiation, anything further goes to a court. That's why agreed value contracts exist

True that you didn’t use those words but I was strongly paraphrased you You said

Insurance companies are pricing these things at what they should be worth based on age kms and statistics on how much they cost their business per time basis. Let's face it an old Commodore with high kms and old tech shouldn't be worth the money people are paying.

If a car shouldn’t be worth what people are paying, then those masses must be emotive and irrational else why pay so much. Irrespective, it’s the buying public that define the market value is all I’m saying (and of late it includes these emotive and irrational who pay what some seasoned valuers may class as over the top). Market value = worth the money people are paying

Regardless of the fact insurance companies make huge profits and use actuaries to do their statistical evaluations around setting premiums, there is no getting around the fact market value is market value. Such isn’t define by redbook in isolation to any other current market information that defines the price that vehicles are changing hands.

And FYI, I’m not taking anything personally. I’m simply saying market value isn’t what something should be worth, it’s what something is worth. And me, I’m quite comfortable with my choice of market value policy but I understand it may not be for everyone.

 

[figjam]

How long ago ?
Did you specifically have that included up front?
Their PDS on the website says 35 years old...

Call me Stevie Wonder ..... but I have just looked at my Shannons PDS booklet dated March '21, and the website PDS, and can't see anything about buyback or age of vehicle, unless they are using big words that I don't understand.