Iraq, Part III

[hotrod]

its all do with greed and control , America wont to have control of the world , oil is why they go and fight there, if there was no oil they wouldn't bother , and the only thing why Australia go over so if a war breaks out at us they can go to them for help , Tony Abbott says we need to cut cost and take away jobs but we waste millions on other country's problems why should we go into more debt over there and take it out on us it has nothing to do with us. and yes the Muslims want to take over and is getting worst across the world , its becoming scary , the next world war is coming soon to town near you.

 

[ari666]

war generates immense income.

it keep 1000's of unskilled workers employed

its a incredible source of research and development. so may day to day items we used were perfected in combat. electronics, medicines etc.


why wouldnt we go to war? i mean, not only to keep oil costs low. there are so many other reasons.


plus bombs and bullets have an expiry date, so may as well use them.

 

[Trayner]

the next world war is coming soon to town near you.

 

[hotrod]

yip its a win win situation , reduce the number of population in the world and create jobs at the cost of a human life. Awesome.

 

[Calaber]

The Pagans might want to have a word with you

Christianity at a time was the same if not worse. As were the Pagans.

They appear as if theyre about a millennium behind everyone. Other religions have changed to a certain extent kept up to date with changing societal values. They appear as if they dont want to or cannot get out of the stone age.

I think that's the point, Gren. Christianity was barbaric, a thousand years or so ago. Modern, tolerant religions, allow for differences of beliefs, processes, traditions and symbolism.

Islam seems never to have advanced from the Dark Ages. Consider the attitudes towards women, the total denial of the right of other religions to exist, the punishment for the most minor crimes. Some "crimes", such as apostasy, are punishable by death.
Apostasy is simply choosing to change your religion, but woe betide you if you choose to abandon Islam for some other religion. A woman in Sudan (IIRC) is currently under sentence of death for just that "crime". The determination to have Sharia law become the law of the land wherever these bastards choose to live is another concern for modern, civilised nations.

These religious dinosaurs want to take the world backwards a thousand years or more and have us all live the way they want to. What a charming thought.

Perhaps if we sneaked them a couple of small nukes, they could obliterate themselves totally in the name of Allah. They'd be stupid enough to use them, but I can't imagine where Allah would find all the virgins when they came knocking on the Pearly Gates, or whatever their version of Heaven has.

 

[c2105026]

My thoughts......

-Yes there are some wacky elements of Islam, but most muslims (at least those who come to the west) are 'normal' moderates like most Australians. We just see the violent, bonkers minority because it makes for a great news story. If you think Christians are any different, just think of what the religious right does in America. They have creationist museums. Bombing abortion clinics. KKK. And so on. In the UK - they had the whole Nthn Ireland thing, and to this day a Catholic cannot ascend to the throne. Even in the 40s-50s in Australia there was catholic/protestant angst here. All religion is silly but some take it a bit more seriously than others. I don't mind religious moderates of any persuasion, but abhor fundamentalists of any creed.

-War is utterly wasteful in terms of resources, human cost, and infrastructure, and should be avoided by a country unless 100% necessary for actual direct protection. As far as Australia is concerned, we seemed to be dragged into other countries conflicts without a second thought (USA, Britain). Sometimes, these are based on lies. As such only countries in the immediate vicinity should be concerned. It isn't our business, as are all the other smaller wars going on at the moment. If we are indeed in a budgetary crisis, we need to prioritise. Middle eastern wars in the 2000s cost the USA trillions, and has added much to their debt problem, when it needn't have.

-For the middle east to be peaceful it would need to be a religion-free zone. This means hypothetically removing all notions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism from the area. But this isn't possible, and never will be.

 

[Big-Al]

I wouldn't under estimate these guys intellect. Most aren't as well educated as us but I would not go so far as to call them stupid. Don't forget the CIA trained Bin Laden and his mates. Give them a few nukes and I would expect they would use them on major US cities rather than on themselves.
For an "unsophisticated" enemy they have kept both super powers out Afghanistan for the last 30 years.

 

[Calaber]

its all do with greed and control , America wont to have control of the world , oil is why they go and fight there, if there was no oil they wouldn't bother , and the only thing why Australia go over so if a war breaks out at us they can go to them for help , Tony Abbott says we need to cut cost and take away jobs but we waste millions on other country's problems why should we go into more debt over there and take it out on us it has nothing to do with us. and yes the Muslims want to take over and is getting worst across the world , its becoming scary , the next world war is coming soon to town near you.

Mate, I really think you need to do a bit more reading.

America does NOT want to control the world - in fact, it's a well acknowledged historical fact that the Americans dislike imperialism. It was a major sticking point between Britain and the US during World War 2, because the yanks wanted to rid the world of fascism and release nations from their traditional pre war "masters". They didn't want to the world order to revert to its pre-war status, but Britain and other European nations, who had empires world wide, wanted their subjugated nations back once war was over.

And no sensible nation will simply decide to re-enter Iraq. It's a case of been there, done that, and it's now up to Iraq to sort its own **** out. Some limited military aid will be provided, but manpower won't be a significant factor this time round.

If the thought of a potential war being started by Muslims worries you, you haven't been watching the news. North Korea is far more likely to do something really stupid.

 

[c2105026]

I think that's the point, Gren. Christianity was barbaric, a thousand years or so ago. Modern, tolerant religions, allow for differences of beliefs, processes, traditions and symbolism.

Islam seems never to have advanced from the Dark Ages. Consider the attitudes towards women, the total denial of the right of other religions to exist, the punishment for the most minor crimes. Some "crimes", such as apostasy, are punishable by death.
Apostasy is simply choosing to change your religion, but woe betide you if you choose to abandon Islam for some other religion. A woman in Sudan (IIRC) is currently under sentence of death for just that "crime". The determination to have Sharia law become the law of the land wherever these bastards choose to live is another concern for modern, civilised nations.

These religious dinosaurs want to take the world backwards a thousand years or more and have us all live the way they want to. What a charming thought.

Perhaps if we sneaked them a couple of small nukes, they could obliterate themselves totally in the name of Allah. They'd be stupid enough to use them, but I can't imagine where Allah would find all the virgins when they came knocking on the Pearly Gates, or whatever their version of Heaven has.

Bear in mind though that Islam is about 6-700 years newer than Christianity. They are now where christians were about 6-700 years ago, therefore. Religions evolve. One of the main things that cracked christianity's monopoly on everything was science. In 2014, what could be of help is industrialisation and/or globalisation. When people and countries are trading with eachother, they don't want war, because it's bad for business. Most militants I assume are from an impoverished, uneducated background. Give them an education, a sustainable industry to work in, they won't have time for riding about in Toyota Hilux Pickups with an AK47, wearing balaclavas.....

As for Sharia law, most middle-eastern folk who come to the west are either muslim moderates, atheists or christians fleeing sharia law. I am not aware of any serious push for sharia law to come into force in Australia, at least.

 

[Calaber]

My thoughts......

-Yes there are some wacky elements of Islam, but most muslims (at least those who come to the west) are 'normal' moderates like most Australians. We just see the violent, bonkers minority because it makes for a great news story. If you think Christians are any different, just think of what the religious right does in America. They have creationist museums. Bombing abortion clinics. KKK. And so on. In the UK - they had the whole Nthn Ireland thing, and to this day a Catholic cannot ascend to the throne. Even in the 40s-50s in Australia there was catholic/protestant angst here. All religion is silly but some take it a bit more seriously than others. I don't mind religious moderates of any persuasion, but abhor fundamentalists of any creed.

-War is utterly wasteful in terms of resources, human cost, and infrastructure, and should be avoided by a country unless 100% necessary for actual direct protection. As far as Australia is concerned, we seemed to be dragged into other countries conflicts without a second thought (USA, Britain). Sometimes, these are based on lies. As such only countries in the immediate vicinity should be concerned. It isn't our business, as are all the other smaller wars going on at the moment. If we are indeed in a budgetary crisis, we need to prioritise. Middle eastern wars in the 2000s cost the USA trillions, and has added much to their debt problem, when it needn't have.

-For the middle east to be peaceful it would need to be a religion-free zone. This means hypothetically removing all notions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism from the area. But this isn't possible, and never will be.

As I wrote that earlier post, I had Northern Ireland in mind as the obvious exception to religious tolerance in the modern world. That battle has its origins not only in religion, but in British "incursion" into Ireland, where many Irish resent British presence and want a united, independent Irish state. I sometimes think the religion issue was used to mask the real reason for the hatred, but obviously, N.I. was a bloody place for many years and religion was the reason given for the fighting.

I agree with your comments regarding Australia's involvement in world conflict (apart from more recent peace-keeping efforts as a member of the UN). If we go back to the very beginnings of Federation, we can question our involvement in just about every war except World War 2 (and to a very minor extent, World War 1 where the navy was involved in a number of operations in the Pacific taking control of German protectorates and destroying communications centres, and the sinking of the Emden in the Indian Ocean by HMAS Sydney (I)). Our direct involvement in the Second World War need only have commenced with the Japanese entry into the war and the direct threat it posed to our own security. But, for some reason, we seem to have answered the call whenever a major conflict broke out, whether it was in our backyard or not. We could (should?) have stayed out of some of them. (Malaya 1956, Boxer Rebellion 1900, Boer War 1900 - 1902 for example)

My suggestion regarding nukes was obviously tongue in cheek. I'd no sooner give those mongrels a nuclear weapon than admit them into my house. "Stupid" might not be the most appropriate description for them, but their rabid hatred has blinded them to any reason and they are acting in such an irrational and unjustified manner that you have to question their intellect.