IRS toe control links for VR-VS?

[apollo13]

When Holden adopted the Opel Omega IRS, they strangely omitted the toe control links. Maybe they were trying to get the price of a Berlina under $30,000 back then. It was reinstated in the VX II. However the VT had the mounting holes for HSV to fit these links.
I am pretty sure some aftermarket suspension shops offered this at the time (not to be confused with "camber kits"). Can this be done to the older Commodores? I imagine it requires some serious modifications, which in turn means an engineer's report to satisfy the insurance companies and registration authorities.

 

[_R_J_K_]

If the swing arms are the same it might be possible to swap them, I know for sure the subframes are different. My understanding is that the toe adjustment really isn't that great anyway.

 

[Immortality]

The extra toe link certainly improves wheel alignment issues experienced with the earlier models.

The later model subframe won't fit in the early model cars which are missing the extra brackets to mount the toe link arms interestingly though, the VR/VS rear wheel hub castings do still have the extra appendage where the toe link would have connected however it is not drilled.

Ultimately I don't think it would be to difficult to replicate the extra subframe brackets, however they would need to be welded to the subframe and would most likely require engineering. Fitting the rest would be fairly straight forward, drill/ream the hubs to suit the toe link rod and making some rods to the correct length.

The question is whether this would be more cost effective than the commonly available adjustable bushes for the IRS cars.

 

[lowandslow]

Just fit the bushes yourself at home. Easy job if you have two people and more than 4 brain cells.

 

[jeepster]

The extra toe link certainly improves wheel alignment issues experienced with the earlier models.

The later model subframe won't fit in the early model cars which are missing the extra brackets to mount the toe link arms interestingly though, the VR/VS rear wheel hub castings do still have the extra appendage where the toe link would have connected however it is not drilled.

Ultimately I don't think it would be to difficult to replicate the extra subframe brackets, however they would need to be welded to the subframe and would most likely require engineering. Fitting the rest would be fairly straight forward, drill/ream the hubs to suit the toe link rod and making some rods to the correct length.

The question is whether this would be more cost effective than the commonly available adjustable bushes for the IRS cars.

Camber kits (eccentric bushes) are for lowered suspensions. Opel only lowered the Omega police/sports packs 15 mm because of their crude suspension skewing the camber. The toe control links are a different issue. The trailing arm bushes compressing allow the wheels to slop around under heavy braking or cornering without the toe control link. Probably the only option for VP-VS IRS is to fit hard bushes on the trailing arms. Then you might get more NVH.

 

[gluten3]

When Holden adopted the Opel Omega IRS, they strangely omitted the toe control links. Maybe they were trying to get the price of a Berlina under $30,000 back then. It was reinstated in the VX II. However the VT had the mounting holes for HSV to fit these links.
I am pretty sure some aftermarket suspension shops offered this at the time (not to be confused with "camber kits"). Can this be done to the older Commodores? I imagine it requires some serious modifications, which in turn means an engineer's report to satisfy the insurance companies and registration authorities.

Actually, the first Opel Omegas did not have toe links. Lotus decided this was too crude and added the extra links for the Lotus Turbo super saloon in 1990. Opel then adopted this for later Omegas. Holden took some years to catch up.

 

[zeropalooba]

I want to attach toe control links to my VS. This is how far I have gotten with the project.

I have an IRS sub-frame on my lounge room floor. It's the narrow one from the VP - VS. I have the trailing arms from a VX attached to this sub-frame. Fits no problems at all but they are wider. I put them on my car to see if they would still clear the guards. Yes, they do. Track is wider (looks fully fat) but clearance is not an issue through the entire range of suspension motion, even with 265 wide tyres. The handbrake cable from my VS connects to the hubs from the VX, the brake lines connect. The shock absorbers connect. The anti-roll bar will connect (I have a whiteline aftermarket with different links. The OEM one won't connect without custom made links). An M80 LSD is already in the car and giving good traction. The drive shafts were too short but spacers from a Porsche 996 with suitable bolts have extended them. I have an appropriate amount of lateral movement in the fully floating driveshaft at all points in the suspension range of movement. VX trailing arms on a VS are good to go.

Here's my question.
I want to use the toe control links from the VX on the VS. I have taken the brackets from the VX and ground them to fit. I am looking for a qualified welder to attach them for me. Does anyone know who in the Sydney area could do this work? I'd say it would need to be engineered when it's done, but wouldn't it be great?
Alternatively, I can swap out the inner bushes and not use the toe control links but it's too good a mod to at least not try.

 

[Immortality]

Someone recently told me the subframes are the same from VP to VX and it's the arms/hubs that change the wheel offsets. Unfortunately I have not be able to confirm this.

 

[zeropalooba]

I can confirm that the sub-frame and the arms are wider on the VT onwards. The sub-frame is about 50 mm wider and the trailing arms are 25 mm each wider giving the total track increase of around 100 mm. VS rear track is 1491 and VT is 1587. Holden has split the increased track across a number of suspension components.
I was stoked though when the VX arms just bolted in despite being wider. Like it was meant to be. The increased width is all at the hub end as the VX uses a different casting. And finding that Porsche spacers fit perfectly. It must be the Germans (Commodore is originally a German car!) looking after us down under.

 

[EYY]

I've seen people use complete vp/vq subframes in vt-vz's to get wheels with more dish on the rear. As far as I'm aware it was a straight bolt in deal.