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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

Pollushon

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Umm......colour blind witness is not a very good analogy.
If the fact was known the witness was colour blind, then the witness testimony of the hat colour would not be considered a truth in the first place.

Truth and Fact are synonymous, and often there is 'context' to consider.

The definition of Truth: That which is true, or in accordance with fact or reality
The definition of Fact: A thing that is known, or proved to be true
It's truth to the witness. Like religion is truth to the believer. Still not fact. Truth can be built on fact but has space for belief, deduction, perception and perspective. Truth can steer the unobjective mind into falsities. We see this everyday

Fact: the sun rises in the east, passes over and sets in the west
Derived truth: the sun revolves around the earth
Actual truth: the earth rotates

You can argue one but not the other. Point is fact is fact. Immovable, proven. Truth is not, whether you like or understand the analogy. You're right though, 'is not synonymous' should be stated as 'may not be synonymous'. I'm happy with semantics
 
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immortality

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As a cop said to me just recently after a car accident Outside Our place, witness statements vary greatly even though they all saw the same thing, yet each witness was telling the truth as they saw it, their perspective. I supplied video footage Of the whole sequence of events which they were most thankful for as witness testimony is often less reliable than people think!
 

Not_An_Abba_Fan

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My sister always believes in telling people the "truth". Just because you believe it's true doesn't always mean it's acceptable to say. Probably why she doesn't have may friends and has a new job every second month.
 

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My sister always believes in telling people the "truth". Just because you believe it's true doesn't always mean it's acceptable to say. Probably why she doesn't have may friends and has a new job every second month.
Id like her more than the priest at my church I was complaining to him about a job I had changing light globes where they were telling me the old globes were being recycled. Yeah they are being recycled at the tip by throwing them in land fill , ole mate said Id look past that and just do my job.
The country is full of gutless yes men that work on suckhole points which seams more important than doing the right thing.
 

Nitro_X

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It's truth to the witness. Like religion is truth to the believer. Still not fact. Truth can be built on fact but has space for belief, deduction, perception and perspective. Truth can steer the unobjective mind into falsities. We see this everyday

Fact: the sun rises in the east, passes over and sets in the west
Derived truth: the sun revolves around the earth
Actual truth: the earth rotates

You can argue one but not the other. Point is fact is fact. Immovable, proven. Truth is not, whether you like or understand the analogy. You're right though, 'is not synonymous' should be stated as 'may not be synonymous'. I'm happy with semantics
Your analogies are.....really awful.
Your second analogy confuses planetary orbits with axial rotations.
And comparing a colour blind witness with a religious believer is an even worse analogy.

If you are going to go the straw man path and bring individual personal 'beliefs' into this, then you are lost in the woods and simply making up statements to suit your narrative in an attempt to confuse people into thinking you know what your saying.

An individuals 'personal truth' (or belief) is a philosophical and subjective thought process
Truth of Fact is a scientific or logical thought process

In addition, facts can change over time, as new information or evidence become available.

Facts and Truth ARE synonymous....I've already proven this fact ;)....check your dictionary.
 

Pollushon

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Your analogies are.....really awful.
Your second analogy confuses planetary orbits with axial rotations.
And comparing a colour blind witness with a religious believer is an even worse analogy.

If you are going to go the straw man path and bring individual personal 'beliefs' into this, then you are lost in the woods and simply making up statements to suit your narrative in an attempt to confuse people into thinking you know what your saying.

An individuals 'personal truth' (or belief) is a philosophical and subjective thought process
Truth of Fact is a scientific or logical thought process

In addition, facts can change over time, as new information or evidence become available.

Facts and Truth ARE synonymous....I've already proven this fact ;)....check your dictionary.
If a fact 'changes' it was never a fact. Facts do not change. Truth's and theory changes. You are clearly very confused but that's okay if you have to be right and centuries of wisdom have to be wrong

You went a dictionary? That's pretty funny. I like it when people try to sound smart via philosophising subjects and principles they clearly do not understand. Most people go to university for years to study works of a millennia but if Webster's and Google is your thing, feel free. It's almost like Shane has two accounts. One for drinking and one for the sober times
 

Nitro_X

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If a fact 'changes' it was never a fact. Facts do not change. Truth's and theory changes. You are clearly very confused but that's okay if you have to be right and centuries of wisdom have to be wrong

You went a dictionary? That's pretty funny. I like it when people try to sound smart via philosophising subjects and principles they clearly do not understand. Most people go to university for years to study works of a millennia but if Webster's and Google is your thing, feel free. It's almost like Shane has two accounts. One for drinking and one for the sober times
You brought religion and belief into it, not me. You're analogies are awful....still.
And I like dictionaries....they're fun, one should never be ashamed about consulting a dictionary.:cool:

Lets get back to the original issue, 'ey.........you stated...." Truth is not fact, nor are they in any way synonymous "

A fact, is true by its very nature.....which makes truth and fact synonymous
(I'm not saying these two words can be infinitely interchanged though)

A truth can also be a fact.
If you ask me how much money I have in the bank right now and I tell you I have $10,000, then I show you my bank statement and it shows a $10,000 balance, I was telling a truth (being truthful) and stating a fact.
In this instance a truth was also a fact.

Today I have $10,000 in the bank, that's a fact (I showed you my statement)
In 12 months time this fact will probably have changed due to interest earned, deposits and withdrawals.
Some facts can change over time.
 

Pollushon

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You brought religion and belief into it, not me. You're analogies are awful....still.
And I like dictionaries....they're fun, one should never be ashamed about consulting a dictionary.:cool:

Lets get back to the original issue, 'ey.........you stated...." Truth is not fact, nor are they in any way synonymous "

A fact, is true by its very nature.....which makes truth and fact synonymous
(I'm not saying these two words can be infinitely interchanged though)

A truth can also be a fact.
If you ask me how much money I have in the bank right now and I tell you I have $10,000, then I show you my bank statement and it shows a $10,000 balance, I was telling a truth (being truthful) and stating a fact.
In this instance a truth was also a fact.

Today I have $10,000 in the bank, that's a fact (I showed you my statement)
In 12 months time this fact will probably have changed due to interest earned, deposits and withdrawals.
Some facts can change over time.
When you pulled out the straw-man, I figured you were in 'duck' mode. Cool and calm on the surface, legs paddling underneath furiously. Your post is the very definition of straw-man and I invite you to Google it as it's only a couple of clear sentences, so unlike this subject matter it's a quick read and easy comprehension. I corrected that statement, if you care to read and am happy to fall on my sword if that helps you with a 'quick win'

So lets move back from your little segue into diversion and look at the root statement, that got Shanes panties and auto-correct bunched. I thank you for your compliments but the statement and the examples are not mine, they belong to the annals of history and philosophy. "Truth is subjective, fact is not". Nothing you have written has in any way detracted from those words. None of it has come remotely close to proving it to be untrue (see what I did there?)

Your bank statement analogy doesn't even relate. You didn't include time. Whether your balance changes or not, your deposits, withdrawals fees and interest will also be facts. At a point in time the facts state you had 10k. You deposit some, you withdraw some, the bank chucks on a fee and then some interest... but... that fact remains and now new facts are created. That's what your bank statement is; a record of facts, observable and immovable. You can't just choose to discount space-time, because it exists regardless of your ability to recognise it. You can however choose to derive any number of truths from that bank statement. That's what subjective means

A truth can be a fact (you just call it a fact though) but that won't change that the truth you call a fact is derived from the human condition and fact is merely observed to be. (focus on this statement, it's the root topic)

Feel free to have another crack but might I suggest enrolling in a basic philosophy class first. You haven't even presented a coherent response yet just segues, digs and ramblings

Be honest, you're Shane right?
 

Nitro_X

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When you pulled out the straw-man, I figured you were in 'duck' mode. Cool and calm on the surface, legs paddling underneath furiously. Your post is the very definition of straw-man and I invite you to Google it as it's only a couple of clear sentences, so unlike this subject matter it's a quick read and easy comprehension. I corrected that statement, if you care to read and am happy to fall on my sword if that helps you with a 'quick win'

So lets move back from your little segue into diversion and look at the root statement, that got Shanes panties and auto-correct bunched. I thank you for your compliments but the statement and the examples are not mine, they belong to the annals of history and philosophy. "Truth is subjective, fact is not". Nothing you have written has in any way detracted from those words. None of it has come remotely close to proving it to be untrue (see what I did there?)

Your bank statement analogy doesn't even relate. You didn't include time. Whether your balance changes or not, your deposits, withdrawals fees and interest will also be facts. At a point in time the facts state you had 10k. You deposit some, you withdraw some, the bank chucks on a fee and then some interest... but... that fact remains and now new facts are created. That's what your bank statement is; a record of facts, observable and immovable. You can't just choose to discount space-time, because it exists regardless of your ability to recognise it. You can however choose to derive any number of truths from that bank statement. That's what subjective means

A truth can be a fact (you just call it a fact though) but that won't change that the truth you call a fact is derived from the human condition and fact is merely observed to be. (focus on this statement, it's the root topic)

Feel free to have another crack but might I suggest enrolling in a basic philosophy class first. You haven't even presented a coherent response yet just segues, digs and ramblings

Be honest, you're Shane right?
Jesus......*shakes head*....no thanks.....I really do have more productive things to do than play on swings and round-a-bouts.
Enjoy your day.
 

Skydrol

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Here is a legend about oppressors; the story of Diego de Salcedo. Around the 1500s in the island of Puerto Rico during the discovery of the new world.



Legend say that Diego was a Spanish soldier watching the Taino people paning for gold in the island of Puerto Rico. Because of the Spaniards technological superiority and tactical advantage, they were looked upon like gods. One day, the Taino people decided to test one of them. Diego at random, was chosen and drowned to prove their godliness. He drowned in the river, proving that the Spaniards were not gods. They watched for few days just in case he resurected, his body rotted away.

The moral of the story... there are more people than Gov Officials. They fear you, their power is given by you, the people, the people can take that power away.
 
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