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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by minux, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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    Apparently in Finland it was the case traffic fines were indexed due to income. Makes a bit of sense, $200 fine for a student could be crippling, but a $200 fine for a billionaire would not register a blip.

    Anyway......whilst I do support a progressive taxation system, one mustn't get carried away and tax the wealthy into oblivion. Just doesn't make sense, is illogical. To have say a top tax rate of say 85%, as some countries have had, is silly. And I say that as a staunch leftie.

    It also irritates me when people say 'don't fund private schools with taxpayer money'. This argument is rarely thought through. No funding for private schools means most will close because the required much-higher fees will drive people away. Then the public system which doesn't have a lot of fat in it will be overloaded. That being said some capital expenditure for private schools can be a bit silly sometimes. I don't see why a private school should get a govt funded aquatic centre, whilst the public school has 1/3 of their rooms as demountables.

    That being said, going to a public school or private school is no real change in educational outcome, looking at a child-by-child basis. I have taught in both, albeit briefly, and have seen kids succeed and fail in both. Much is to be said for attitude, natural ability and basic support from home regarding education and discipline.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
  2. Jesterarts

    Jesterarts Your freedom ends where mine begins

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    Your last paragraph, agree 100%.
     
  3. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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  4. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    I wouldn't worry too much. Can't see that plan getting up politically. I'd view this report as the baseball bat and expect a very much watered down version of approx 30% to actually get up thus the public feel "better". Politics 101 :). Howard did the same when he got in before Costello's first budget, as did Rudd with the Henry review (although he ####ed it up and did near zero of what was recommended there!)
     
  5. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    The problem for the government is that they have to do something and can't afford to wimp out on making really harsh and unpopular decisions. Nobody can expect the situation to continue as it is at present and assume that all will work out well, without some serious pain. That pain has to be spread around within the community as it best can be, with higher income earners naturally attracting higher imposts than low paid people. We have become too complacent and too well cared for by government largess over the last couple of decades and the younger generations have never known anything different.

    I know that I won't like quite a few things that this Budget could contain, but I didn't vote for the Coalition because I hate Labor, or because I like Abbott (who is still not my preferred PM). I voted that way because I was concerned at the direction this country had taken and I want it fixed. I reckon a lot of people voted that way for the same reason. It can't be fixed by waving a magic wand or just adding water. The spending has to stop and things we like having provided by the government now will have to be sacrificed. That's the harsh reality this government faces.

    Some of the proposals that have been floated suck. The deficit levy/tax is a stupid idea, because it destroys the government's credibility and won't fix the deficit. It's an extremely unpopular idea that would be tougher to implement politically than some of the more severe suggestions put forward in the Audit Report, and I don't understand why they would even consider such a tax, instead of taking up some of those Audit suggestions. I think that, if they implement that tax, they will provide the Opposition with more ammunition than Gillard ever did, and could become a one-term wonder.
     
  6. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    You are correct that the deficit levy doesn't fix a structural problem however it does provide cheap (aka free) cashflow for the government until savings on the expenditure side flow thru, and the "normal" revenue side catches up. Whilst I detest the idea, especially when there were soooo many reasons why we didn't need to be in this position to begin with, sadly I think it will happen and resigned to the fact that yet again my family is going to have to kick in to pay for the previous administrations' screw ups.

    As for raising the pension age - meh. I see it as inevitable. I didn't have a problem with raising it to 67 and 70 is not considered super old any more (and I am in the age group that will have to retire at 70 according to media reports).

    From what I understand, the pension age is a fete-de-comple and has been announced as such by Abbott/Hockey. Everything else is pure speculation and all will be revealed in a few weeks.
     
  7. Drawnnite

    Drawnnite Obviously Unsensible

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    what I cannot understand is
    why would they want to waste money on other sectors for no gain only to then have the rest cop it.

    this whole PPL is a prime example
    im sorry but you should not be given money to go have a kid.
    if you cannot save up enough having some future planning then you shouldn't be paid whatever it is to have a child.
    then go look at schools, so will there be enough spaces at schools for these kids in the future?
    the flow on effect can inevitably be quite large.

    I do understand it was probably for an image point of view.

    would love to see some of these politicians also take some cuts of their own to show that they are willing to do so.
    was reading somewhere yesterday that back in I think the 30s James Scullin, then prime minster, took a 10% pay cut.
    I mean nowadays that may not be much, but even just to show some of these initiatives would be great.
    would be interesting how much past and present Politicians do cost taxpayers each year with everything included.
     
  8. XUV

    XUV Member

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    But you do end up with a broader social network and a bit of nepotism by knowing someone goes a long way .

    BTW I didn't go to a private school but know many who did and have seen the 'I know such'n'such ' at work.

    and as for income tax , there should be no brackets.

    The first 20-25k tax free then 25 or 30% tax for all , that way people would pay and not avoid.
     
  9. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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    True, there is the opportunity to network in a private setting, but if you are willing to live outside your own comfort zone every now and then you'd be surprised who you might meet. But due to smaller population it's easier to do in a rural city......
    For the 'I know such and such' crowd - if they are at the same station in life as the 'i don't know such and such' crowd therefore knowing 'such and such' may not have been such a benefit. lol ;)

    For most fulltime workers, tax as % of total salary is anywhere from 10% to 30%. 30% seems like a lot but a $180,000 worker still takes home $125,000/yr under the current system, from where I sit yes, you do pay a lot of tax, but it's still a crapload of disposable income, an amount most would never dream of getting.

    As long as tax is being paid, people will figure out a way to avoid it and minimise it.
     
  10. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    You don't see that $60k a year is a huge contribution for 1 person to make to the running of the country?? That doesn't take into account taxes paid on GST, stamp duties, etc etc etc that they pay on the disposable part of their income.

    My personal opinion is that the top line of income tax should be in line with both company and tax on trusts which really makes no incentive what so ever for individuals to avoid tax via elaborate schemes.

    Also, in general, the lower both income and company taxes are, the more incentive the best and brightest people have to come and work in Australia, plus attract companies to operate here utilizing these people. To some extent it's a bit of Reaganomics where low taxes stimulate economic activity where govco receive income via GST and other tax receipts from that growth.
     
  11. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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    Well I guess it's a matter of glass half-empty vs glass half-full. Personally whenever I have received an income and done a budget, I have never considered my gross amount, only what is deposited in my bank account every week/fortnight. Gross salary/wage with a job - it's just a number on a bit of paper as far as I'm concerned.

    Reganomics. Hmm, I have similar thoughts about that that you might have about social democracy lol ;)
     
  12. XUV

    XUV Member

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    I like our social welfare system, as it's a great crime reducer and would never like to see it go.

    I'd like to see companies operating under the religious 'tax free' umbrella brought into line , the combined tax avoidance is valued at $20-30bil

    Companies like sanitarium as it pays no tax and is american owned.
     
  13. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    ingrish??????
     
  14. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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    I'd agree with that 100%, some 'churches' are out and out buisnesses for their pastors. Hillsong apparently has the biggest recording studio in the southern hemisphere they use to produce their lucrative musical products. Charities normally don't have the biggest recording studio in the southern hemisphere. It is also difficult to check their books because from what I understand, churches don't have auditing requirements. Here we only have Hillsong as a megachurch (to my knowledge), but over in the states the problem is immense due to higher religiousity and possibly lower economic regulation. "God - Creator, Alpha and Omega, grand mathematician of the universe - really bad with money. Which is why he is always wanting more" as George Carlin put it.....

    But.... some religious organisations are genuinely charitable (Salvos, St Vinnies, World Vision etc), providing services for education, healthcare, and homelessness. As such any new tax code would need to make this distinction somehow, otherwise govco would need to fork out $$$ to cover any shortfall in financial support for such services.

    My understanding of Reaganomics is that it involves low tax, small govt, low economic regulation for theoretically higher economic growth. I think most here would agree I don't view this favourably for various practical reasons. Social democracy involves very sufficient funding of welfare, public services, anti-racism etc, environmentalism etc to theoretically build an equitable, sustanable society - we can safely say Mr Reaper does not view this very favourably neither, for his own reasons. On the same page now? Or is this still requiring translation to 'Ingrish'? lol ;)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
  15. XUV

    XUV Member

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    if the church proves it's charitable then it's tax free , just like the rest of us.
    He was good for bankrupting the USSR, we might have to this again ;)
     
  16. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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    I don't think 'Reaganomics' bankrupted the USSR. USSR bankrupted itself through both the inflexibility of socialism, and the very expensive incursion into Afghanistan. State based socialism doesn't work; just ask the former USSR, Nth Korea. China is a success story because it went capitalist, is now communist in name only. State Socialist economic policy was always doomed to failure. Look at Maoist China. Centralised economy issues are compounded when those controlling the show don't know what they are doing. China's great leap forward resulted in a vast sea of poorly made metal and a famine that killed 5 million people. (Yes, I do recognise some similarity with 07-10 period ALP stimulus initiatives, lol...)

    One thing that Reagan did do was accelerate the arms race (I think) and the USSR with its limited money tried to keep up and couldn't and went bust, in addition to the futile incursion into Afghanistan (that the CIA helped defeat); then Gorbachev came in to wind the whole thing up.
     
  17. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Ok... Just to be clear, I do not in any shape or form advocate that we should adopt the "Reagonomcis" wholus bolus. My point was that parts of the theory have merit and should be looked at in the Australian context.

    Check out the welfare thread of a year or so ago for my thoughts on the welfare system but suffice to say, some benefits are far, far beyond what we can both afford and what people actually need (in effect some parts encourage laziness IMO).
     
  18. XUV

    XUV Member

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    and we have another government that won't start a sovereign wealth fund ...........
     
  19. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Sounds very similar to the Costello future fund to me. Now if only somebody had the foresight to start one of them :unsure:
     
  20. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

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    Wow...sadly people would believe this absolute **** that someone writes.

    No doubt this user has found a snippet posted somewhere with half truths, maybe the greens website?

    Sanitarium pay all taxes except company profit tax. All profits are donated to the church which is then spent on charitable organisations. I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, however, telling 1/4 truths misleading people is just stupid.

    Oh at last check, they were also Australian owned and operated according to their latest tender documents, more half truths eh?

    Seems to be a common theme.

    PS: You too can donate all your profits to a charity...my guess is you wont though.
     

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