JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[DAKSTER]

dont worry. i see exactly where you are coming from on this.
again im just curious as to know the amount it takes out of the public pocket.

stuff it. im just going to leave it.
all i wanted to know is if anyone has any statistical figure of how much it drains.
but obviously its going to turn into some fight over why i must somehow call people dole bludgers while living in my high and mighty castle on the top of a hill while looking down as some posh snob.

lol mate I actually thought we were having a reasoned debate here, which is a change I don't see you as high and mighty at all, sorry if you have taken it that way. Just making my point of view, as were you. All good

 

[DAKSTER]

Regarding what could potentially be shrunk.. plenty. Including the services mentioned, but you cant just slash and burn, it needs to be done intelligently. You do it slowly, make productivity improvements and lose workers by natural attrition.

Throwing 20,000 people into the unemployment cycle is not a productive way of cutting costs. You still pay them up to 30% or more of what they would have been paid anyway, but with no return for your investment at all any more.

Governments need to co-operate so long term strategies can be given time to work. When you have an empire builder like Campbell at the reins in QLD, he wants to make the most visible impact in the least amount of time. He is gambling that his reforms will reap tangible benefits in his short time in office, so he can be re-elected. He has seriously underestimated the public backlash in doing so, and this is likely to be his only term as Premier as a result.

I'd have been much more impressed with a decent long term business plan.

 

[Drawnnite]

lol mate I actually thought we were having a reasoned debate here, which is a change I don't see you as high and mighty at all, sorry if you have taken it that way. Just making my point of view, as were you. All good

tis all good.
i dont normally take stuff to heart =P (outsider: "oh my god he must be cold blooded!!!" =P)

its just i read calabers post and think wow, lets cut something that actually helps people.
yet not cut out perks and bits and pieces that.

again.
what else should be cut out/trimmed.
asylum seeker benefits? from what ive heard/read it seems too good to be true.
some politician bonuses. should they be allowed to vote on their own pays?

and just reading your last post. i totally agree.
they should be required to do something for society as a whole to gain said bonuses.
im sure there are plenty of bits and pieces they could do. prime example, there is alot of graffiti/rubbish laying about (lots of glass bottle and can, wonder if its their own =P) that needs cleaning/covering. just an idea to put out there.

 

[DAKSTER]

tis all good.
i dont normally take stuff to heart =P (outsider: "oh my god he must be cold blooded!!!" =P)

its just i read calabers post and think wow, lets cut something that actually helps people.
yet not cut out perks and bits and pieces that.

again.
what else should be cut out/trimmed.
asylum seeker benefits? from what ive heard/read it seems too good to be true.
some politician bonuses. should they be allowed to vote on their own pays?

and just reading your last post. i totally agree.
they should be required to do something for society as a whole to gain said bonuses.
im sure there are plenty of bits and pieces they could do. prime example, there is alot of graffiti/rubbish laying about (lots of glass bottle and can, wonder if its their own =P) that needs cleaning/covering. just an idea to put out there.

I know what I would cut first from Campbells budget. 200 grand given to channel 9 to help out with Big Brother. If they can't afford to make it without government money , don't make it. That just makes me sick, they cancelled the literary awards because they couldn't afford the 200k it cost, and gave the 200k they saved to channel 9. No benefit whatsoever for we, the people, with that.

I'd take away mid level govt. credit cards, and make them function with pre-approved purchase orders. Make them account for the money BEFORE they spend it.

I'd be examining the way the government does its business, and reducing multiple duplications of some services.

I'd stop hiring lollipop men too. A whole industry has grown around the madness that happens there. Where you used to have two guys driving down the road with a bitumen truck and a couple shovels, you now have a workforce of half a dozen, finding a pothole, laying a kilometre of witches hats in either direction, and signage of course, for each 5 minute pothole repair, then picking it all back up again and moving to the next pothole. No wonder it costs billions to upgrade and maintain roads.

I wouldn't sack anyone. I would stop employing unnecessary people, and make sure I get quality production from ALL of the existing staff. Natural attrition will cut the workforce soon enough.

 

[Tatiana]

someone who hasnt worked for 5 years, and is able to and has been offered jobs, is still getting paid by Govco, you couldnt be mad?

Unfortunately it's not cut and dried as some would think. Not all long term benefit recipients are bludgers. Some have non vocational barriers to employment where they would dearly love to bounce out of bed each day and head off to work, however anxieties, mental health issues, substance abuse and even domestic violence prevents that. Fixing these barriers isn't as simple as a script for some pills and off you go. These people work on their issues through therapies (and drugs to stabilise) and ease into work part time but can have set backs that see them go back to square one. Eventually some of these people go on to stable employment.

Then yes, there are the long term dole bludgers who have no intention of working and play the system well. They know the loop holes, occasionally they take a hit and lose part or all of their payments for a period of time, but most don't learn from this. They play the victim card and blame everyone but themselves for their loss of benefits. Ceasing benefits totally is not taken lightly, as you can appreciate this effectively means no income therefore the person may turn to crime to feed themselves and buy their booze and smokes. They can choose to do a voluntary activity (that has to be approved by DHS and their JSA) that can see their payments reinstated, however this breaks down also because once the payments restart they start failing to show for their activities and use the loopholes to remain on payments and not do their activities. These people I feel should be taken down the back of the paddock and shot!

 

[DAKSTER]

I have actually long advocated an 'emergency work' scheme rather than unemployment benefits. I stress I only mean unemployment benefits here, not pensions.

I'd pay a very low hourly rate, say $10/hour. Anyone could go into the emergency work office and be guaranteed, provided of course they were in fit condition to work (appropriately dressed, drug and alcohol free), of as many hours a week work as they want. 60 if they like.. the ability to do that for a short period may save someones car or house from being repossessed.

If they work 40 hours weekly, they may take home $350/week? (if in fact they have to pay tax at all with that rate of pay, they could get $400 even?) and actually be better off than a current dole recipient. If they work 20 hrs/week, they will earn less than the current dole recipient. They don't have to work at all if they don't want to, but they wont get paid either

This provides a safety net for the genuine, a smack in the face for the bludger, and a real incentive to find real work. If you are already working for a pittance, you are likely to try and find better? If you don't, then the government gets cheap labour to do the stuff that cost money now.. even if its litter and graffiti removal, who cares, at least they are doing something. At the moment its just free money.

Charity organisations would benefit too, the workers could be loaned to them. The local council has a big job on? Call the emergency work people they have plenty of workers to help out... This system would also have the advantage of flexibility, leaving the recipient the ability to search for work, reskilling etc. Of course the government would assist in reskilling and suchlike, but only if you work a certain number of hours as well..

 

[Calaber]

Daks

Regarding you comment concerning emergency work. I recently moved to an area in the Newcastle coalfields. There are numerous townships out this way, each a kilometre or two from its neighbouring town. The main road between then is an old, two lane concrete job that was laid in the Depression as a government project for the unemployed. The workers obviously were paid an unemployment benefit for their labours whilst providing a vital community transport link that still serves as the main connecting road to this day.

I realise times have changed and the men of the 1930's were probably very grateful for any work that came their way, but I fail to see why similar community projects can't operate these days, with the government providing the funding to councils, for example, (as you suggest) to enable local facilities to be provided. Naturally, there would need to be strong oversight to ensure that Councils didn't just use the funds to fill their coffers or charge exhorbitant management fees. The workers would need to complete a specified number of hours work per week and produce a signed certificate from the council to Centrelink to ensure they were entitled to the correct payment. The cost of maintaining this system would be a burden for council so they would need funding to enable the system to operate, but it is one suggestion that would see some unemployed gaining skills, doing meaningful work and earning the dole.

 

[gopher]

I have actually long advocated an 'emergency work' scheme rather than unemployment benefits. I stress I only mean unemployment benefits here, not pensions.

I'd pay a very low hourly rate, say $10/hour. Anyone could go into the emergency work office and be guaranteed, provided of course they were in fit condition to work (appropriately dressed, drug and alcohol free), of as many hours a week work as they want. 60 if they like.. the ability to do that for a short period may save someones car or house from being repossessed.

If they work 40 hours weekly, they may take home $350/week? (if in fact they have to pay tax at all with that rate of pay, they could get $400 even?) and actually be better off than a current dole recipient. If they work 20 hrs/week, they will earn less than the current dole recipient. They don't have to work at all if they don't want to, but they wont get paid either

This provides a safety net for the genuine, a smack in the face for the bludger, and a real incentive to find real work. If you are already working for a pittance, you are likely to try and find better? If you don't, then the government gets cheap labour to do the stuff that cost money now.. even if its litter and graffiti removal, who cares, at least they are doing something. At the moment its just free money.

Charity organisations would benefit too, the workers could be loaned to them. The local council has a big job on? Call the emergency work people they have plenty of workers to help out... This system would also have the advantage of flexibility, leaving the recipient the ability to search for work, reskilling etc. Of course the government would assist in reskilling and suchlike, but only if you work a certain number of hours as well..

if they will guarantee them up to 60 hours a week and call it emergency work then why couldn't they just give them 40 hours a week and call it a job?

 

[DAKSTER]

if they will guarantee them up to 60 hours a week and call it emergency work then why couldn't they just give them 40 hours a week and call it a job?

emergency work @ $10hr. If you really need $600 its going to be a long week, but at least you have the option if you are trying to save your house. You'll get your bills paid while you find a job that pays a real wage.

At $10/hr you have a safety net, but you sure as hell are going to look for something better.

 

[Julie]

Man am I feeling torn atm with state politics. If an election were to be called now I would seriously not know who to vote for. On one hand we have labor who basically ####ed up the state and left the Liberal party with crap to clean up and in massive debt then we have Barry O'Farrell who is making some really dodgy decisions cutting back in areas where he ust should not even be thinking about touching. I hope he wakes up and listens to the public or we will be back with labor come next election. I don't follow QLD politics much but I believe that Campbell Newman is doing the same to QLD but worse. This arrogance from both state leaders concerns me. Lots of life time Liberal voters are fed up with these two Premiers and that is reflecting on to federal politics with a lot of people concerned that the O'Farrell and Newman show is just a taste of what will happen if Abbott gets in. Get your **** together Liberal premiers and stop worrying about saving your budget at any cost, if you piss people off too much you will soon be out of a job and Labor will squander any savings made!