Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by minux, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. Drawnnite

    Drawnnite Obviously Unsensible

    Messages:
    1,431
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Location:
    Victoria
    Members Ride:
    2000 Vs Ute
    well there we go. we have another contender for the argument :p

    it would be wise to also look into that not all states have the same wages. (obviously there is minimum wage/award wage though)
    and then also out in the regional areas it can vary even more.
    so what we have down here might be even less somewhere else.
     
  2. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

    Messages:
    6,420
    Likes Received:
    5,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2004
    Location:
    SE Suburbs, Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    RG Z71 Colorado, 120 Prado , VDJ200 Landcruiser
    It's not about awards. Most in the building trades are subbies (or subbies of subbies) earning way way way ahead of any award.
     
  3. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

    Messages:
    6,927
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    300rwkw FG G6ET/Specialized Tarmac SL4
    There is ALWAYS a choice. We have a "friend" (more of an acquaintance) who is a bricky, guy always has a new car, never has any money and just bitches about this. If he got rid of the car, he would have a load of spare cash and could just what you are saying, he makes it his choice to not be able to invest more.
     
  4. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VR SS '94/Subi B4 TT '01
    I was ignoring the physical working strain from working and talking about the body in general. My MiM for eg was a teacher then PHD, then teachers teacher at Churchlands WA, not physical work but her body is rat-**** through age. People age differently. If you add in physical injuries through the years, and yes there may be less of those with modern tech, it makes you more disabled than you would be than if you worked in a less physically demanding role. But... Your eyesight still goes, your hearing, your joints etc. You just get to live longer with them.

    My MiM for eg has had vertebrae fused to get her some mobility, that's modern medicine keeping her alive, she'd be bedridden and probably die very soon with out it. Don't worry though, she's self funded, private insurance and pretty well off. Strangely though, she's a lefty that dismays at listening to the other SFR in the oldies home she is living in.
     
  5. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    NSW
    Members Ride:
    2000 VTII Commodore Olympic, 2012 Ford Focus ST
    I am actually indifferent about retirement age going from 67 to 70. Personally I was going to retire later anyway. Teaching isn't a strenuous job, and has much flexibility with leave etc. and am currently quite fit. however if one is in poor health in strenuous job will be interesting to see how it goes. If you hate your job or are already suffering health issues, I can see why one might be unhappy with it.

    However if we are going to have an older working population we will need to rethink Oh&s and preventative health. When I was with the RTA it was always the older and more unfit workers hurting themselves with manual labour.
     
  6. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VR SS '94/Subi B4 TT '01
    What do you think of this? Should a member of the house be able to hand signal the chair to do tricks like a dog? Is she biased? She is the only chair that has attended party room meetings, has booted opposition members 100 times from the house in her short stay.


    Christopher Pyne pulls Speaker's strings

    Also if the carbon price was a lie and Juliar lied and paid the price for that for 3 years, what do the rusted ons think about all TAs lies. No excuses now, they were not allowed for Julia in a minority govt there should be none now with a govt in it's own right. Remember it's a no excuse, do what we say, no surprises,no new taxes, govern for all etc etc govt of adults. Will you make excuses for them or deal with it in the same way as the price on carbon? Not to mention he said these same things in parliament... Is lying to the house not misleading parliament? How will the cost of living be lowered by removing the price? The cost of living has just been increased by multiples of the $500 for most, which was compensated for, and the rusted ons cheer. Strange.

    edit: On top of that, the no increases to the GST promise.. So he doesn't, because he can't, he just starves the states so they must come to him to have it raised. Even his QLD pal Newman sees it this way as I think most Premiers do.

    edit2: Personally I hope it goes to a DD although I doubt he has the guts, he'll be the shortest termed PM in history.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  7. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VR SS '94/Subi B4 TT '01
    It's not the strenuousness of the job, it's how your body ages, see my post about my MiM above, she was a teacher. If super is increased even in lieu of pay rises so people can retire earlier if they need to I don't have a problem with it, lower earners need super tax breaks, top earners need their super tax breaks cut. The thing is compulsory super only came in in 1992, I was a motor mech back then, motor trades are not paid very well and were not then, I will need the pension, I will be eligible at 67. I was born in 1959 and at no stage was it made clear that the pension would not be there after the tax I paid. Now, any one that started work after about 1995 probably doesn't have an excuse as the writing was on the wall but there are a bunch of people that are going to be penalised for not being fortune tellers or public servants.

    edit: I quite often see the right praise Costello's future fund as a great idea. Why? All it does is pay public servant's retirement, politicians included, it was a self serving exercise in making sure pollies and public servants were looked after, a guarantee they could keep their snouts in the trough. How about we use some for the pension? After all it was put in place by selling assets that were paid for by people going onto the pension now and into the near future.
     
  8. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    NSW
    Members Ride:
    2000 VTII Commodore Olympic, 2012 Ford Focus ST
    Indeed the body can age quite a bit between 60 and 70, for example. Not only is there issues with the senses, from a musculoskeletal view you can have oesteoarthritis, weaker muscles, diabetes, heart disease, all which increases Oh&s risk. You have 2/3 of the population overweight or obese (and rising) and over the next few decades this can be a ticking health time bomb.

    One thing I'd like to see is all the pollies not get their pension til age 65-70....
     
  9. gopher

    gopher Active Member

    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    Here
    Members Ride:
    Car
    Didn't you know as long as you're a liberal pollie and you call it as being in the best interest of the nation then all your pre election commitments are null and void. Not like they didn't know how bad things were before they made all their promises and most of their campaign was based on how bad the budget was

    And as long as you can blame it on labor too
     
  10. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,335
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    Perhaps some of you lefties should read back a couple of pages to get some views of conservatives on precisely the questions you have asked.

    I said, speaking for myself at least, that Abbott made stupid statements and undertakings during the election that he probably needn't have made because the electoral result was a no brainer. Now he finds himself stuck with unnecessary and unintelligent promises that will bite him on the arse, very badly. Blind Freddy (and surely a lot of voters) knew that he couldn't have things both ways. You can't promise to abolish taxes (even dumb ones that gain little revenue), not increase other taxes, not introduce new taxes, not abolish expensive programmes whilst introducing a pet one of your own and still bring the budget back into the black.

    I really don't think a true leader would have made such idiotic statements. I don't think Abbott is the best man for the job. I don't think his attack dog antics were as necessary as a lot of conservatives do and I certainly don't think that they are going to help him now. I have always regretted Turnbull's errors because they undermined his capacity to lead and he was deposed - I believe he is potentially a far more intelligent and credible national leader.

    So, no defence here for Abbott as PM.

    However, if you people really think that your precious ALP/Greens alliance didn't create one hell of a mess of the economy, and have better policies that will more fairly and confidently sort things out than the Coalition, you are living in Cloud Cuckoo land.

    And gopher, it's interesting to note that you appear at least to acknowledge in your last post that things really were bad before the election. Reading any of your previous posts always gave the impression you thought things were smelling like roses under Labor......
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
    Drawnnite likes this.
  11. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,335
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2

    This is a more interesting theme within the thread that has some meat to it.

    Last things first - get the politics out of the way. The Futures Fund was created to enable the Commonwealth to meet future extended leave commitments for Federal public servants, because at the time of the fund's creation, the leave liability bill for the Commonwealth was unfunded and exceeded the government's ability to pay it. With the passing of time, the bill was increasing dramatically and Costello's actions put the fund in place to reduce the liability for the Commonwealth for all future leave liability. It might seem to be a perk for public servants and pollies, but it was wise financial management because it addressed a major financial impost on the government which up to then had never been planned for.

    Now, regarding superannuation, retirement age and physical fitness to continue to later age. As someone who contributed to their retirement for over 38 years as a state public servant, can I use myself as an example of being an SFR and living with today's cost of living expenses, whilst dealing with declining physical capacity?

    I retired on medical grounds in 2008. At the time of my retirement, I had my employer-subsidised super, to which I was also required to contribute a mandatory personal input specified by my employer. At the end of my career, that was the 9% employer and 6% employee contribution.

    I also had a second super fund which I paid via salary sacrifice. That was a further 8% of pre-tax salary. In all, my super was being contributed at the rate of 23% of my annual salary. I contributed to the first fund from 1970 to 2008 and to the second from 1998 to 2008. At the date of my retirement my employer subsidised super was worth approx. $553k and the salary sacrifice super was a further 65k. I commuted one third to settle my mortgage and took the balance as a pension. At that time, the pension was a reasonable amount and looked like it would ensure a comfortable, though not luxurious retirement.

    I retired just before the NSW State Government decided to send electricity costs soaring. Those costs principally, with the assistance of other regular costs of living increases, have ensured after only six years that my pension is now inadequate to live comfortably and I now work part time to supplement my income. I have mentioned elsewhere that I am very fortunate to be able to get employment in a small regional community at the age of 62.

    I retired due to failing eyesight in one eye, degenerative spinal issues in my neck and arthritis in my knee. I could have continued to work for some time in my employment, but my eyesight problems had left me in embarrassing positions more than once and as a manager, I was not prepared to continue suffering that embarrassment. My physical problems don't help with the current job, but you just work through them. I can readily understand the points being made here that age is the enemy for many people simply because of degenerative illnesses that can prohibit hard physical work from continuing.


    I thought I had prepared myself financially pretty well for retirement. Not so - the costs of living have eroded the value of my pension severely in a comparatively short time. My super was much more than many nearing retirement would have accumulated at this stage of their lives, particularly those who were not employer subsidised until 1992 or made no personal savings prior to that time. I'm not entitled at this stage to any government health card/pension benefits, but will be eligible in 2017. I might not like admitting it, but when I become eligible, I will be forced to apply for those benefits despite having saved for nearly forty years and having not "taken my super as a lump sum and pissing it up against a wall taking exotic holidays etc"
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  12. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    NSW
    Members Ride:
    2000 VTII Commodore Olympic, 2012 Ford Focus ST
    Apparently two areas that are going through the roof in terms of govt expenditure are disability payments and health costs. I see these areas as somewhat linked. Mood disorders, diabetes, cancer, joint replacement all much more prevalent than they were 50 years ago, and all cost the economy greatly. Obesity is one factor, another is general lifestyle and related stress. We are living in a way that contradicts the way we have evolved. If we got fit and/or healthy as a nation we could greatly slash various budgetary overheads. But that'll never happen....
     
  13. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,335
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    I suspect that medical advances also play a part in the growth of disability expenditure too. Some illnesses are treatable today with medications not available 50 years ago (eg. mental, depression - the range of drugs today is far greater and more ideally targeted at specific complaints. In the old day, it was Valium and not much else). Joint replacement technology has advance enormously - unfortunately, so has the cost.
     
  14. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VR SS '94/Subi B4 TT '01
    What about Pyne dog whistling the chair? The chair is supposed to be at least somewhat impartial but we have one that is so partisan she takes her cue from an MP. How do you think it should be handled?

    Edit: I wouldn't have put you in the rusted on group, you think for yourself.
     
  15. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

    Messages:
    4,335
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Location:
    Lower Hunter Region NSW
    Members Ride:
    CG Captiva 5 Series 2
    Thanks for the compliment.

    I don't have a firm opinion because I haven't watched the film clip you posted (limited download allowance on wireless internet here). However, I have views about Pyne and Bronwyn Bishop.

    Bishop first. Elsewhere in the media I read a comment (perhaps by Laurie Oakes?) criticising her appointment as speaker and her biased performance in that role. If, as you have said, (and it was also stated I think in that report), she has turfed 100 plus Opposition members since being appointed to the chair, her impartiality has to be seriously questioned. The two Labor speakers prior to that idiot Slipper were at least willing to give the then Opposition a go and the first one, Harry Jenkins, did a pretty good job and was well respected on both sides of the House. Bishop's appointment might be convenient for Abbott, but it was a dumb move and not particularly good politics, either.

    Pyne. Reminds me of a Maltese Terrier. Yap, Yap, Yap, nips at your heels and annoys the **** out of you. However, he is clever, articulate and probably well suited to his job, especially as Leader of the House or whatever that role is called. A capable opponent for Albanese (whom I detest). He comes across though, as smarmy during TV interviews.

    In summary, though I am a conservative voter, I also have a very strong interest in Australian political history. I read books on various politicians of both sides - currently have Billy Hughes biog to read. Also read some of the current political tomes from recent pollies in federal and NSW state governments. In particular, our politics leading up to and during WW 2 are of particular interest, and I consider that Curtin was far and away the best PM this country has had. How's that for a conservative?

    I think it's a great shame that the Labor Party has taken the direction it has since Keating. Gillard once said a good government had lost its way and she was right. The problem is, she never helped them to find the way and nothing has changed with Shorten. That Party needs a serious overhaul and rethink of its values and priorities before it can truly say it represents the majority of Australians and it needs to stay well away from fringe parties like the Greens.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  16. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

    Messages:
    2,512
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Location:
    Glen Waverley, Victoria
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV G8 Sportswagon
    I posted a reply to Gopher regarding this question, my answer was very similar to Calabers.

    It was a dumb promise. Flat out dumb. We saw how badly Labor failed at getting back to surplus and we now know how much deficit we're in. Why on earth would you promise something so out of reach, especially when it was probably a goal for a decade plus. But we're here, we cant change that.

    End of the day what is going to hurt more? A broken promise or a broken wallet? Either you take the full on scrooge route and just take with both hands but hey, we might fulfill the promise in a few terms but everyones going to despise us for it. Or you come clean. Come out to the public and say, Yup, we ####ed this. We didnt realise the true nature of this deficit. We are going to take a slow and steady approach. We will make cut backs within these areas and then slowly claw at the debt. In a terms time, you go to the election and say ok weve reduced the debt by lets say 10% by making these small changes. In another 3 years we propose to make these changes and try and cut it by a further lets say 30%.

    Its a no win situation for Liberals and theyve got noone to blame but themselves, i bet theyre regetting making a huge deal out of Julia's nonsense now though haha.
     
  17. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VR SS '94/Subi B4 TT '01
    How can you say that? You heard it from Tony himself... His would be a govt of no excuses! :rofl:
     
  18. gopher

    gopher Active Member

    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    Here
    Members Ride:
    Car
    He's so arrogant he doesn't even bother to make excuses
     
  19. DavidPartay

    DavidPartay somewhat awesome

    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Location:
    Central Coast, NSW
    Members Ride:
    2009 Subaru Liberty
    You could also say that he is so blatantly aware of the fix that he's in that he knows that making excuses would only make things worse.

    Perspective is a wonderful thing.
     
  20. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Members Ride:
    VR SS '94/Subi B4 TT '01
    Actually he makes heaps. That's the funny thing. The excuses you make when you're not making excuses... Labor, Labor, Labor. Labor did not put on a good show with its disunity, that's a fact, but I would put Juliar back without a second thought rather than Tony. She got things done. I know, I know, look at the debt... Funny how no economist sees it as bad as the right make it out to be. In fact if we increased taxes to the Great Profligate's levels we would not have a budget problem. The problem was Labor had a tax cuts mentality in a period of declining revenues, if tax receipts were placed at or near the highest rates of the Howard govt we would not have a problem.

    If top end tax concessions on super that JH put in place were cut, again we would not have a problem, if negative gearing concessions were halved we would not have a problem, if FTB was less generous it would go a long way. This is why the "budget emergency" is wool over the eyes. Now they have the wool over people eyes they want to hit the least able to bear it. Small temporary measures at the top, big permanent measures at the bottom, just to make it look like the burden is shared. It's another lie. Govern for all..

    No, it's a bad govt with no ideas but an abundance of ideology.

    Edit: Calaber, If the future fund is such a great idea as it props up the PS and Pollies, and they knew that pensions were going to grow, why didn't they split it, why didn't they make a "future" fund for the future of the people that built the country we live in? Why is it called the "Future Fund"? It's only for their future. A guaranteed trough for their growing by the year snouts and it keeps those cost out of the public eye, they become invisible.. Yep, Juliar didn't help with her ridiculous pay rises for pollies, are we seeing any benefit from paying them more? Pay peanuts, get monkeys, pay any amount more than peanuts get greedier monkeys. If it was a fair dinkum game(Abbott favorite phrase) I would work for 50g to represent Australia, for the benefit of the country that my children will inherit. Maybe I'm just a small monkey but I believe Australia is my family, not my business..
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014

Share This Page