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JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

Reaper

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I also get annoyed at people who say 'under John Howard's leadership, everything was rosy'. Its so easy to forget that John Howard was in power at a time when the entire world was in a boom cycle. Every country in the world with a stable government was doing well at the time. He would have had to be actively trying to make things worse if he were to have made a negative impact.

Well that's not the case either. Howard was in power during the biggest global terrorism scare since WW2. He and Costello also led Australia thru the Asian Economic crisis that was right on Australia's doorstep. Most people seem to miss that or are too young to remember it what so ever.

Reaper
 

Fekason

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While I agree with many of your comments there, I think some are off the pace.

I think what people are expressing their concern about is not left or right policies so much as the financial management of government. There have been many governments of the left in history who have been prudent managers of their country's economy. Surely it is hard to argue with the claim that this one is not.

A catch cry seems to be that the previous federal government dropped the ball on infrastructure. Never mind that responsibility for the bulk of infrastructure belongs to state governments, which were ALP generally over that time. In addition, the current government's efforts on infrastructure have not been momentous, mainly comprising failure (e.g. insulation, BER) or excess cost for the outcome (e.g. BER and NBN).

Basically what we have now is a BIG increase in federal government debt with very little to show for it, and we will be paying for it for a long time to come. I believe that things could be much better now than they are if the federal government (and state as well) had been more fiscally responsible with the people's money.

And to counter my comments with a throw-away line about advocating corruption and human rights abuses is a bit much when we are discussing an entirely different issue. Still you are entitled to you point of view. It's good living in a relatively free country, isn't it.
 

DAKSTER

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Well that's not the case either. Howard was in power during the biggest global terrorism scare since WW2. He and Costello also led Australia thru the Asian Economic crisis that was right on Australia's doorstep. Most people seem to miss that or are too young to remember it what so ever.

Reaper

No offense mate but the global terrorism scare did little to hurt us at all apart from slightly reduced tourism, and the Asian financial crisis was a drop in the bucket compared to the GFC.

The Asian crisis reduced exports by a matter of a few percent, and increased imports over the same period. Our financial markets were barely affected at all, and Australia still reported solid growth, low unemployment, and low inflation over that period.

I remember it, I just don't remember it having any major impact.
 

DAKSTER

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And to counter my comments with a throw-away line about advocating corruption and human rights abuses is a bit much when we are discussing an entirely different issue. Still you are entitled to you point of view. It's good living in a relatively free country, isn't it.

I believe it was you who said 'I suggest that we need to be comparing our position with countries more like China and other Asian countries than PIIGS, USA, UK, France etc.'.

I don't see my response to that as a throwaway line, its a valid observation, and if its a different issue perhaps you shouldn't have brought it into the debate. China would and could not be the financial powerhouse it is without the corruption and human rights issues I spoke of.
 

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Am i the only one who turns the TV off whenever I see political news now?

It has decended into utter lunacy. We need an election and one fast because this shambles of a minority government is a bloody joke, I do not care who would win it, as long as it had a majority win. Oh while we are it we could do with some new front benchers on both sides of the bloody fence. From seafood txts to PM's setting up slush funds it is nothing but a farce. It is no wonder jobs are being shed left right and centre...business' are struggling there is no confidence.

I think what needs to happen also is by-elections should not be triggered because some dipshit has caused problems, it creates unstability and promotes bad behaviour...sack them and move someone else from the party in. At least then we would not have to have a joke like we do with craig thompson, peter slipper and the wanker liberal from Vic.
 

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No offense mate but the global terrorism scare did little to hurt us at all apart from slightly reduced tourism, and the Asian financial crisis was a drop in the bucket compared to the GFC.

You don't think either of those had the potential to set Australia back in a big way if things weren't managed well??? See - this is the problem. Manage things well and the world carries on oblivious. #### it up and everybody notices.

The Asian crisis reduced exports by a matter of a few percent, and increased imports over the same period. Our financial markets were barely affected at all, and Australia still reported solid growth, low unemployment, and low inflation over that period.

Have a look how it effected much of Asia.

I remember it, I just don't remember it having any major impact.

I studied it. Australia did exceptionally well at the time thru good judgement and economic practice.

Am i the only one who turns the TV off whenever I see political news now?

It has decended into utter lunacy. We need an election and one fast because this shambles of a minority government is a bloody joke, I do not care who would win it, as long as it had a majority win. Oh while we are it we could do with some new front benchers on both sides of the bloody fence. From seafood txts to PM's setting up slush funds it is nothing but a farce. It is no wonder jobs are being shed left right and centre...business' are struggling there is no confidence.

I think what needs to happen also is by-elections should not be triggered because some dipshit has caused problems, it creates unstability and promotes bad behaviour...sack them and move someone else from the party in. At least then we would not have to have a joke like we do with craig thompson, peter slipper and the wanker liberal from Vic.

But we have a new parsomething of Parliamentry something something thats working something something according to Oakshott and Windsor.

Reaper
 

ivabiggen

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thanks fella's for pointing out my spelling mistake, i am informed enough too know that Germany is again showing who's the boss in europe whie the poms worry about which royals dick or tits are on display. this is what we asspire to with our pathetic groveling excuse for GOV of both parties.Anyone can look up stats, in canberra they look up skirts.PS to DAKSTER, the lunitics are still on the grass.
 
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DAKSTER

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You don't think either of those had the potential to set Australia back in a big way if things weren't managed well??? See - this is the problem. Manage things well and the world carries on oblivious. #### it up and everybody notices.

Have a look how it effected much of Asia.


I studied it. Australia did exceptionally well at the time thru good judgement and economic practice.

Please excuse the lengthy post, but this is one paragraph from a speech made by Alexander Downer at the time regarding the 'Asian Crisis'. The speech in its entirety can be found HERE.

Please note, he has not at any point claimed that any direct action whatsoever was taken to avoid problems caused by crisis. Instead, he has pointed out that

'This solid performance was due to good growth in exports to the United States and EU in particular, as well as to a range of emerging markets.'

and followed up with

'At the same time, Australians have benefited from the best economic fundamentals for a generation.'

Of course, he places the medals for these economic conditions on his own governments chest, as any government would, but the fact remains that the entire Western world was doing very nicely, thank you. A catastrophic mistake would have been very hard to make under the conditions at the time.

You have to admit, this doesn't sound like they were struggling to keep their heads above water. You simply cannot compare this event with the GFC, as you have.



... Alexander Downer, Australian Foreign Minister, 1998 ...

How Australia has fared

Australia's close economic interdependence with East Asia means that our trade is inevitably affected by the regional downturn.

In 1997-98, Australia's merchandise exports to East Asia - $47.2 billion - actually increased by 5.5 per cent over the previous year. But Australia's merchandise exports to the region declined sharply in the first two months of 1998, contributing to a downturn of 5 per cent in the first eight months of this calendar year compared with the same period in 1997.

The outlook remains very clouded, although since May we have seen monthly exports to the region pick up slightly, in trend terms, on the strength of good export sales to Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Good sales to some smaller regional markets, like Vietnam, have also defied the downward trend. Now, the latest trade statistics for September indicate a flattening of the trend. Clearly, the continuing volatility of East Asian economies means we must remain cautious about assessing these trends.

While our exports to East Asia have declined, Australia's merchandise imports from the region have been climbing. Most of the increase has been in manufactured items, but because many of the items concerned are not produced in Australia our consumers and producers are benefiting from the lower prices - a fact reflected in the latest excellent quarterly figure for inflation. Nevertheless, in some areas, such as apparel and paper, domestic producers are facing increased competition from East Asian exporters.

Australia's overall trade performance has, despite the East Asian crisis, held up remarkably well. Our exports of goods and services in 1997-98 grew by 8.2 per cent over 1996-97. Merchandise exports grew by 9.3 per cent and services exports by 4.6 per cent. And we are maintaining modest growth this year. The figures released last Friday indicate that for the first nine months of 1998 we have registered an increase of 2.7 per cent in the export of goods and services over the same period in 1997. Abstracting from factors such as the one-off gold sale by the Reserve Bank in 1997, merchandise exports were up 6.9 per cent in the same period.

This solid performance was due to good growth in exports to the United States and EU in particular, as well as to a range of emerging markets. Overall, exports to non-East Asian markets rose by 22.9 per cent compared to the previous financial year, justifying the strong effort made by the Government since coming to office in 1996 to encourage greater market diversification by Australian businesses.

At the same time, Australians have benefited from the best economic fundamentals for a generation. Interest and inflation rates that Generation X-ers had thought were fanciful exaggerations that only their parents made. Levels of growth amongst the world's highest. A budget that is in very healthy surplus.

What we have through our example been showing the region, and the world, is that commitment to economic reform and liberalisation can help a country withstand serious economic shocks. Our ability to avoid the worst of the economic trends in our region and be in a position to offer our neighbours a helping hand is proof enough of that. It underlines the Government's commitment to reform and to keeping markets open.
 

vr94ss

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Am i the only one who turns the TV off whenever I see political news now?

Am I the only one that would love to be a fly on the wall at your place when the political news came on whilst you were watching? ;) Not saying you do but I could imagine you getting verbal at the TV and the thought makes me lol.
 
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