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JC Political Thread - For all things political Part 2

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by minux, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Yeah I was surprised to see that too. No doubt that workchoices was unpopular with a lot of people but it does lend me to wonder how much of Kevin 07 was workchoices or how much was 10 years in government and lets give the other guys a go to keep everybody on their toes??? Maybe both - we will never know for sure.

    That said, even before the latest Royal Commission there is no doubt that unions such as the CMFEU and AMWU (to name a couple) do their cause no favors what so ever. Their leadership are perceived by both industry and (in this case) more importantly much of their membership as nothing more than common thugs and bullies. Of course there are some sections of the workforce who revel in it, most decent people are uncomfortable about it at best and won't be members of such organization given the option.
     
  2. Drawnnite

    Drawnnite Obviously Unsensible

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    just to add in.
    yes those graphs are interesting, but at the same time, do all industries have unions and so forth?
    I say that, because, way back when it was at its peak, was it mainly desk jobs or workers out on the tools doing the hard yards. (reaper can show his age here :spot on:)

    compared to now with many more desk jobs and less people being out on tools and so forth.

    and just one more thing.
    the media sure do a good job of portraying unions always in a bad light.
    not all members are as described with being lazy and so forth.
    just a minority that give the majority a bad name.
     
  3. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Anybody is free to join any union that they choose and I'm sure any/all unions will be happy to take that persons $10 (or whatever it is) per week.

    There are plenty of unions that specialize in white collar jobs, particularly with big companies such as banks, telcos etc etc etc

    Leaving the media completely out of it - most of the leadership and their representatives (ie organizers etc) do a great job at it too.

    I'd agree that most of the rank and file members do a great job and aren't lazy what so ever. Sadly they often have no choice when a strike is called or bans are put in place. Oh - even though we supposedly have freedom of association laws (ie free to join/not join a union) - try to get on most commercial building sites without a CMFEU/ETU/TWU whatever ticket ;).
     
  4. Drawnnite

    Drawnnite Obviously Unsensible

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    im awaiting the next jobsite that asks for my union ticket.
    going to see what happens when I say "na don't have it" (when actually I do)
    just for some giggles.

    (I am quite certain they are not allowed to not let me on site because of the ticket)
    (oh and rarely do I go on such sites)
     
  5. monkey

    monkey Donating Member

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    Been in building, construction and manufacturing industry since I left school in 2000 and never had a problem with getting on a building site, in Adelaide at least, it is illegal to refuse entry to non union members just as it is illegal to refuse entry to union members, we are all treated equal.

    Yes the unions have done us good, I also think they are a good idea but. . . they can be intimidating or rude and coercive and some members are bullys and if you must do what they say when they say, even though youre paying them, that doesnt sit well with me.

    This is Australia and if you are doing the right thing and doing a good job you are usually not taken advantage of. If you are there are laws in place and free legal aid to help you. Being intelligent enough to know when someone is trying to dupe you and what their and your legal obligations are is the best help of all.

    If we were all in the **** unions would be our friend. As long as most people are happy enough with the way things are, or not willing to make a change, then union membership will wane.

    The Aussie spirit of banding together in times of need Is still alive and well as proven recently by a group of strangers pushing on a train to help one person.
     
  6. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Correct - they must let you in however there is a fair chance the entire site will stop which will effectively mean you need a ticket otherwise the builder just won't employ you.
     
  7. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

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    The graph kinda ends with a recovery or at least an almost stop of drop, a flattening, then no more data. It'd be interesting to see another couple of years at the end.
     
  8. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Did you look at the 1st graph which is as good as current - plummets with a bit of a rally due to distrust of the ALP (all I can put it down to) before it continues it's swan drive.
     
  9. Drawnnite

    Drawnnite Obviously Unsensible

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    could you also maybe put it to those that started off many moons ago (like yourself ;)) and are now retiring?
    and new workers are not filling that "void" they have no left.

    although that might not be the biggest impact, it certainly could attribute to that decline.
    especially from where it originally starts to decend on that graph

    this being more to do with the 2nd graph but seeing the 1st is the tail end, it applies to both.
     
  10. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    Raw numbers in the workforce is increasing although as a proportion of the population it's going down. Taking into account population growth, those graphs are an unmitigated disaster.

    Years ago with non existent workplace safety laws and awards Unions were required and very needed. These days in Australia at least, workplace safety legislation is worlds best and along with modern awards etc, in many cases unions just aren't required, nor relevant any more. Any lingering sentiment from days gone past gets wiped very quickly when you look at the likes of John Setka etc.
     
  11. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

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    Relentless down overall, yep. The future will show if this a good thing. I'll sit on the fence as I think we need unions, I don't think it will be good in the long run without them, but I'm willing to watch what happens.
     
  12. c2105026

    c2105026 Active Member

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    I attended my first union meeting as fully salaried worker yesterday arvo (after work...). LOL. Making reaper etc proud :D

    But seriously, I think 95% of public teachers belong to NSWTF, they are pretty sedate these days. Mainly negotiating EBAs etc. not much industrial action happening. Rightfully so, NSW budget isn't that great and trying to push for too much would not be palatable.

    There are other various non-industrial action perks that go with membership. Various forms of legit training and professional development (that all teachers need to do), retail offers, etc.
     
  13. Reaper

    Reaper Tells it like it is.

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    TBH I'm fine with most of that. Individual contracts for big collective groups like Teachers, Fire fighters etc etc just doesn't make sense. Some of the union health funds are also great value too.
     
  14. vr94ss

    vr94ss walks barefoot

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    Being in and supporting a collective is always better value than being isolated. That is the real basis of society... family, tribe, etc looking after their own.
     
  15. minux

    minux Infidel Bear

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    As a teacher you should be in the union, for one reason only, when that feral child stabs you or you are accused of something you did not do, they will cough up the coin to defend you. Out of the 50+ teachers I know, I would say 40 of them are int he union for that reason only.

    Just on unemployment, how can the government continue to allow 250,000 people into this country each year? With no new jobs being created, surely it is time we lock the gates and say no more to all immigrants legal or illegal until the country can gather itself again? Cease all foreign aid and start supporting people & business here. It seems ludicrous that we allow so many people in and pay so much to overseas countries yet our own country is flailing.

    A good read from (lefty approved media rag) The Age:

    Lax immigration policy hurting Australian job seekers
     
  16. Rajesh Koothrappali

    Rajesh Koothrappali Banned

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    Yep. Same goes for a lot of industries. I know train drivers who are in the union ONLY in case they need defending in court. Same goes for Air Traffic Controllers and their union. It's sad protections aren't automatic and they have to waste money on union membership to be covered.
     
  17. Calaber

    Calaber Nil Bastardo Carborundum

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    I worked alongside NSW police for many years. The level of unionism amongst police must go very close to 100% - I can't recall ever speaking to an officer who wasn't a union member. Government authorities generally have very high rates of union membership and I recall reading some months ago that public sector employees across Australia make up the majority of union membership.
     
  18. nathanVY

    nathanVY such boost

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    Iraq crisis: Abbott considering emergency refugee intake | SBS News
    Fantastic. Hopefully it's a lot more than 4000.
     
  19. Jesterarts

    Jesterarts Your freedom ends where mine begins

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  20. Jesterarts

    Jesterarts Your freedom ends where mine begins

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    Clive Palmer accuses Tony Abbott of ''deserting'' Australians during budget crisis

    And this guy ranks highly on the ####tard scale as well. The fat ####er is equally incompetent and has nothing useful to contribute other than show-boating.

    He's upset that Abbott is dealing with a international and very personally sensitive matter and has left the Treasurer to deal with the budget?

    Get the #### out of town? How dare he leave the person responsible for the budget in charge of getting it sorted out.

    Probably got upset that the media nor Abbott hasn't been paying him much attention and has thrown the toys out of the pram.
     

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